Fort Worth Motorcycle Riders

My 7 year old is in the garden club in school. They had a speaker coming in and the teacher talked to the class about acceptance of all types of people and such knowing the speaker was very obviously gay. The teacher even talked to my wife to let her know (they are personal friends). We of course talked to our little girl before school again to reinforce what the teacher said about not making fun of people and accepting them and such. So after school my wife asked my girl how was garden club. She said it was good and the speaker was nice but she was MAD. Of course we wanted to know why she was mad and so we asked. She said "The guy said he was a girl but he wasn't mama" .... "he had a dress on and makeup but he was a guy and he shouldn't be wearing a dress and makeup and he IS NOT A GIRL!". We talked for a bit and explained that some people want to be a girl even if they are born a boy and such... not sure if she really understands but we did our best to explain.

Here is my problem. I have no problem with him being homosexual and such but if your going into a elementary school to talk to little kids shouldn't you tone it down just a tad. The same guy is going to be speaking again this week but apparently he will be seeing his parents right after talking to the kids and so he will be dressed as a man. If you feel you need to dress in a mans clothes for your parents then why wouldn't you do the same for some little kids? Is there any line that we should not cross? Any limits? If so what are they? What are your thoughts?

I think 7 is a little young to be exposed to that in such a direct and close manner. I'd have more respect for the speaker in question if they maintained their appearence for the meeting with the parents as they did for the children. To me, that is showing that this person knows they acted inappropriately and as such you should be upset with the Garden Club, the teacher, and the guest speaker.

But then again in today's hyper sensitive world should you raise concern, you are instantly labeled some sort of evil bigot trying to suppress people.

For me, 100% inappropriate. People who are anti-religion rail against people "cramming their viewpoint down my throat". As an adult, you have the option to walk a way (not listen), stop reading, or argue your point on religion or any other topic. Children don't. This is worse. Your option was I guess to pull your child from school that day, or subject them to something that you prefer not to.

I think schools can present both creation and evolution in schools (I took both), at an appriate grade/age. And exposing children (school kids) to sexual orientation is okay...at an appriate age, in health or biology class (or whatever other approprate class is available today). In the 1st Grade in "garden club" is about as far away from the appropriate class and grade/age as you can get. It obviously made your child uncomfortable, and for what educational benefit?

I would appreciate your teacher letting you know it's coming...and I'd still probably have an issue with it afterwards, unless they were 100% up front about what your child was going to experience.

That being said, excellent job of trying to educate your child, and I'm proud of her for recognizing that something was amiss with what she's been taught her morals should be. You're doing your job in that regard. It's just a shame that the school didn't make a better choice for 1st Graders.

Again, my opinion. I'm not homophobic by any means, I just think it was inappropriate, all things considered.

I knew the guy was openly gay but I didn't see that as a problem..... but I didn't know he would be in a dress and makeup. I am sure (or at least I hope) any conversation that he said he was a girl in was in direct response to a kid asking. I honestly don't know why the school allowed him to address the class in a dress and such but it was probably because in todays world they felt they had to accept him which is where the question of is there a limit comes in.

I agree though that this was not the age or class and in fact I have to wonder if the kids even heard anything he said about garden club or if they where lost in trying to figure out why he was wearing a dress.

I agree that this was not the smartest approach for the speaker to take, but on the other hand, if children are exposed to questions of gender and sexuality early on, then they are probably much more likely to simply accept it as a fact of life, and not bat an eyelash when they encounter this later. After all, aside from the initial surprise ("The guy said he was a girl but he wasn't mama"), I'm not sure that there was any actual harm that has been done, simply by becoming exposed to somebody who is gay/transgender/whatever.

Food for thought.

Thought you home schooled ?

I have tried to teach my children at an early age to save the fucks they give for stuff that really counts.

I think that schools execution was poor but I would hope my kids would have left the room, not "giving a fuck".

Too many real problems in the world to be giving up energy over some dude in a dress, and if that is the worst thing they get exposed to I will count my blessings.

Absolutely no harm has been done. I will have to see if she remembers anything the guy talked about but other than distracting from the info he was trying to teach I don't believe it caused any problems. I guess I am most disappointed in the school to be honest. Its a great school so its nothing that will cause any second thoughts on my part but the school has some fairly strict dress codes for everyone from kids to staff and visitors so they should have stuck to it for this guy as well.

fixxervi6 wrote:I think that schools execution was poor but I would hope my kids would have left the room, not "giving a fuck".

I think this hits the nail on the head.

DemonDuck wrote:I guess I am most disappointed in the school to be honest. Its a great school so its nothing that will cause any second thoughts on my part but the school has some fairly strict dress codes for everyone from kids to staff and visitors so they should have stuck to it for this guy as well.

Yeah, I can definitely understand that. It might turn out that the school was kind of blindsided by it as well.

One of my male co-workers recently started showing up at work wearing lipstick. At first, I thought that it was some kind of Marilyn Manson-type fashion deal, but I was then informed that he is currently transitioning. Ok, cool. Shrug. More power to him her. Its only weird initially.

Children are so innocent and pure. Unconditional love and acceptance are naturally inherent in little ones. When something is different they have a natural curiosity to question it. Why does it look different? Is it weird? Why? That's the mind of a child. The problem stems from learned behavior such as prejudice and hate; those are NOT inherent in children and learned over time, be it at home or whatever their environment may be. The fact that your kiddos, DD, recognized that someone was arguing with them (remember, the mind of a child) a very simple truth, is fantastic. Why fantastic? Because your children are simply being honest with no other intention than wanting to know why a grown up is lying when in the mind of a child they know the difference between what a man looks like and what a lady looks like.

The concern I see is that it wasn't a big deal until his cross dressing came into play. Children play dress up all the time, it's their imaginations at work, it's fantasy. No problem. However, when it is a grown up situation, on grown up terms, no child is going to truly comprehend it the way an adult can. Why would a man who should be talking about gardening get himself upset and the CHILDREN he is speaking to by trying to explain such mature content to little minds that really can't grasp it? It's simply not age appropriate. Not only that, did it ever occur to the speaker or the teacher to let all the parents know that he was going to be cross dressing? Was there intentional secrecy? WHY? I would have liked to have been there just to see how that particular conversation went down, when the kids realized a grown up was trying to throw them a curve ball. Kids speak the truth and back peddling from that is a no-win situation... just grab a shovel. LOL

The problem isn't the man's cross dressing... the problem is if there was a secrecy behind it, that he was trying to argue his grown up point to a bunch of children.

Everyone here made great points and I agree. Unfortunately in today's society, if you dare raise a concern you are automatically labeled as a hater (even with the whole dress code issue!)... never mind you are NOT hating on any LGBT, more of you just want to know why someone would cross a boundary when it comes to children who simply aren't even close to mature to get it... that and again, the whole lying thing. Yes, he lied if he didn't tell anyone he was going to come in drag (lie by omission). Why is it okay to do it in front of children rather than adults? Realistically children will call out someone in drag first before a grown up would. Kids don't know how to not give a fuck yet. They are so curious about the world, their little minds are desperate for knowledge and understanding. They ask honest questions because they see the world with the eyes of honest and innocent children.

Kudos to you and your wife for doing your best to try and explain it the way that would make sense to a seven year old. As for the speaker dude... he should save that for the grown ups. Do I even have to bring that up as a common sense point?

No harm, no foul.

Kids are awesome with the way they think and have no filter when talking.

I absolutely agree!!!!! ^_^

If he is homosexual, maybe the dress and drag was for dramatics to get the kids attention. You have to do something that stands out to get their attention. By dressing as a girl, whilst a man, this is showing the kids that (yes he is a dude) but you still should accept him no matter what he looks like or how he dresses. Who cares what he is wearing? You don't like someone for what they are wearing, you like them for who they are. Even if his brain says he is a woman while his genetics say otherwise, he was showing the kids that people are people and just because what they do isn't norm for most everyone else, doesn't mean it isn't norm for them. If they can accept your norm, why cant you accept their norm (that is who they are...accept them for who they are no matter how odd they are on the outside. How does their norm hurt you?). Never judge a book by its cover.

The dressing up may have been to get the kids to pay attention since he is dressing as a man for the parents. He was addressing the audience. Ask him when you see him why he dressed as a woman because the kids were mad that he thinks he is a woman when he clearly has no female features. Explain that the kids can accept him but they find that when a man, who clearly is a man, says he is woman, he is just a liar to the kids. You can't change your genetics just your physical features (through surgery and hormone replacement therapy).

Kids are at the age that they are easily molded by society. By exposing them to real issues at this young of an age, exposes them to what the real world is like. How many parents try to shelter their kids from all the evil and harm that the world is waiting to do? Everyone of us but you won't always be there to protect them. Hate is taught from home and if mom and dad hate homosexuals (and are open about it at home where the kids can hear), there is NOTHING the school can do to counteract the damage the parents have done to their kids. While y'all say the execution was done poorly, I disagree because (I don't give a fuck) and because he was doing something dramatic to get the kids attention. If he just stood up on that stage dressed as a man and said I like other men, the kids would not be listening to him. He dressed as a woman when he is clearly a man to get the kids attention. He got your daughter's attention because she came home and was mad he thinks he is a woman. I don't know if he wants to have surgery to change sexes or not but he got her attention. How many parents tell their kids that they are special and can do anything they want when they grow up? How many of these parents are teaching them what the real world is like and how in the real world, life is not fair and you don't always get what you want? Most parents aren't not eaching kids how the real world works (because they are special and they deserve it, therefore they do not have to earn it). Maybe the school didn't know how he was going to execute his "accept everyone" speech (his audience are 7 year olds...they like enjoy the dramatics and such) but compared to the shit other schools do (like expelling a 5 year old for eating a pop-tart so it looks like a gun), this is nothing. Be glad she walked away with something (she did pay attention at least how he was dressed and that he said he was a woman). He did his job and got her attention (even if she didn't listen to anything else he said).

I'm a butch lesbian trapped in a man's body

Firewa11 wrote:I'm a butch lesbian trapped in a man's body

I don't give a shit. Good for you. I have a biscuit for you. If you are happy, then so am I.

Telomere wrote:

Firewa11 wrote:I'm a butch lesbian trapped in a man's body

I don't give a shit. Good for you. I have a biscuit for you. If you are happy, then so am I.

Your not offering your biscuit up to anyone woman...

fixxervi6 wrote:

Telomere wrote:

Firewa11 wrote:I'm a butch lesbian trapped in a man's body

I don't give a shit. Good for you. I have a biscuit for you. If you are happy, then so am I.

Your not offering your biscuit up to anyone woman...

BeautifulDisaster wrote:

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Yes it is.

LOL but everyone wins!

fixxervi6 wrote:

Telomere wrote:

Firewa11 wrote:I'm a butch lesbian trapped in a man's body

I don't give a shit. Good for you. I have a biscuit for you. If you are happy, then so am I.

Your not offering your biscuit up to anyone woman...

I was thinking he could be the guinea pig when I make homemade biscuits...
Maybe I should've said Scooby snacks.

Telomere wrote:If he is homosexual, maybe the dress and drag was for dramatics to get the kids attention. You have to do something that stands out to get their attention. By dressing as a girl, whilst a man, this is showing the kids that (yes he is a dude) but you still should accept him no matter what he looks like or how he dresses. Who cares what he is wearing? You don't like someone for what they are wearing, you like them for who they are. Even if his brain says he is a woman while his genetics say otherwise, he was showing the kids that people are people and just because what they do isn't norm for most everyone else, doesn't mean it isn't norm for them. If they can accept your norm, why cant you accept their norm (that is who they are...accept them for who they are no matter how odd they are on the outside. How does their norm hurt you?). Never judge a book by its cover.

The dressing up may have been to get the kids to pay attention since he is dressing as a man for the parents. He was addressing the audience. Ask him when you see him why he dressed as a woman because the kids were mad that he thinks he is a woman when he clearly has no female features. Explain that the kids can accept him but they find that when a man, who clearly is a man, says he is woman, he is just a liar to the kids. You can't change your genetics just your physical features (through surgery and hormone replacement therapy).

Kids are at the age that they are easily molded by society. By exposing them to real issues at this young of an age, exposes them to what the real world is like. How many parents try to shelter their kids from all the evil and harm that the world is waiting to do? Everyone of us but you won't always be there to protect them. Hate is taught from home and if mom and dad hate homosexuals (and are open about it at home where the kids can hear), there is NOTHING the school can do to counteract the damage the parents have done to their kids. While y'all say the execution was done poorly, I disagree because (I don't give a fuck) and because he was doing something dramatic to get the kids attention. If he just stood up on that stage dressed as a man and said I like other men, the kids would not be listening to him. He dressed as a woman when he is clearly a man to get the kids attention. He got your daughter's attention because she came home and was mad he thinks he is a woman. I don't know if he wants to have surgery to change sexes or not but he got her attention. How many parents tell their kids that they are special and can do anything they want when they grow up? How many of these parents are teaching them what the real world is like and how in the real world, life is not fair and you don't always get what you want? Most parents aren't not eaching kids how the real world works (because they are special and they deserve it, therefore they do not have to earn it). Maybe the school didn't know how he was going to execute his "accept everyone" speech (his audience are 7 year olds...they like enjoy the dramatics and such) but compared to the shit other schools do (like expelling a 5 year old for eating a pop-tart so it looks like a gun), this is nothing. Be glad she walked away with something (she did pay attention at least how he was dressed and that he said he was a woman). He did his job and got her attention (even if she didn't listen to anything else he said).

I agree that kids should be taught to accept everyone even if you don't agree with them. Simply accept the fact that they are able to make their own choice. However I think you got the story a little wrong. He was not teaching an accept every class or anything like that. He was teaching gardening and I have yet to find one of the kids that can tell me anything he said about plants or anything he said other than that he said he was a woman and was wearing a dress and makeup and such. So I think he was very poor at teaching what he was there to teach.

Many things in todays world are so messed up and much of it is because people tell their kids they can do anything they want in life but don't tell them they will have to work hard to do it. That and all the entitlement attitude and such .... anyway I could go on for a while about all that.

Yeah, I thought he was there to teach the kids to accept people for who they are (thanks for the clarification). WELL, since he was suppose to be teaching the kids how to garden, he did a crappy job. I wouldn't ask him back to teach that. He shouldn't have been dressed as a Wo-MAN to teach the kids how to plants veggies or flowers. He was out of line with that. LOL!!! If I was there, I would have asked why he was dressed as a woman and ask him how that was relevant to gardening. People...

I wasn't there but the wife did get a picture ... Ill try and get it and post it lol.

Do it already!! I would've had it posted up before I posted the text!!!