Tire width

Telomere
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Re: Tire width

Post by Telomere » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:56 pm

What road did you "heat cycle" your tires on, since this wasn't done at the track? See, I have this problem with leaning. Check out my chicken strips, Baby!!!! They are HUGE!!!! :SideSplittingLaughter: Fixxer showed me tires that actually had a chicken on the side to show the amount of chicken strips you had (I secretly want them) and if they were on my bike, I would have the whole Perdue chicken farm still planted on the side. :D So, the only part of the tire that will probably be "scrubbed" in or "heat cycled" is that which is not part of the chicken :) . I am ok with that because leaning comes with time after I learn how to do everything else properly too.

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Firewa11
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Re: Tire width

Post by Firewa11 » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:01 pm

A lot of tires have different symbols... I know Metzeler's have an elephant, not sure about who makes a chicken tire.
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Re: Tire width

Post by Rhino » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:06 pm

Telomere wrote:What road did you "heat cycle" your tires on, since this wasn't done at the track?
183, 820, 121, etc. It was on the way home from Family Powersports in Hurst.

Leaning doesn't do anything to put heat in your tires. Hard acceleration and braking in a straight line is what does it. Acceleration dumps heat into your rear tire, braking dumps it into the front. If you use the rear brake that puts heat in your rear tire as well. Running your tire pressures a little low will help the tires heat up more too.

I think you may be pleasantly surprised with how much you wear off your chicken strips at the track. It's easy to keep slowly ratcheting up the speed and lean angle when you're in a controlled environment until you're going faster and leaned over more than you would have expected.

The real trick is just don't scare yourself. If you push your limits too much and scare yourself, you'll be gun-shy on that part of the track for a while, which impedes progress.

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Re: Tire width

Post by sckego » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:15 pm

Rhino wrote:Remember, heat cycling your tires is WAY more important than "scrubbing them in". You can rough up your tires just weaving down the street. Getting them to full stickiness requires a few heat cycles.

When I put the Pilot Powers on my ZX, I basically did a little weaving, then did some cycles of accelerate / brake / accelerate / brake. Then (and this is important), I got off the bike for 20 minutes to let the tires cool back down. Then back on with the accelerate / brake / accelerate / brake with some highway riding thrown in.

I did that I think 3 times, then took the bike to the track. Total riding time was maybe 45 minutes, with a couple 20-minute cool-downs thrown in. I know my total "scrub in" time was less than 2 hours, and the tires never once slipped on me.
I always thought heat cycles were bad for tires (race tires, at least) because it caused the rubber to harden over time. I've never heard of them being used to "break in" a tire. I remember one weekend out at Cresson, I wore out my old tires on Saturday and had a new set spooned on the next morning... one easy round-robin session, and the next session out I was dragging knee with Vic on the back. I always laughed when people would say they had to go on a long ride to scrub in their new tires before a trackday... no, you don't, you need two easy laps to scrub them in.

Sorry I don't have any input on the tire issue; the tires I run on my 250 are Pirelli MT75, but those are for the 16" wheels of the previous generation. Not sure what the tire of choice with the new 17" wheels are.
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Re: Tire width

Post by Telomere » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:25 pm

I have heard some run the Pirelli sport demons and some run Dunlop GT501's. But I don't personally know anyone with a newer gen Ninjette. Of course, the ninjettes don't have a huge selection of tires to run. I will know by the end of next week how the tires feel. I am actually a little excited (I probably shouldn't be).

Do you always run with Pirelli MT75's? Have you tried other tires?

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Re: Tire width

Post by Firewa11 » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:38 pm

New tires have three things to be worried about. First, is the profile difference. Going from old tires (flattened out rear, etc) to a new tire, you don't have the flat spots you were used to. Takes a few miles to get used to that 'new' feeling again.

Second, which is much debated among all sorts of circles, is the mold release compound. This is essentially a silicone coating they spray into the tire molds to get the tires to release easily during manufacturing. Not all motorcycle tire manufacturers do this, in fact, Pirelli and Dunlop I know for certain have answered questions from customers that they do not, and they use very smooth and polished molds to produce tires. So, it really comes down to a feel thing. If your tires FEEL slippery, like there is something on them, likely they have the mold release compound, which breaks down at a certain temperature, thus heat cycles causes it to break down and release.

Lastly, and this ties into the above, is the nature of the rubber and the molds in which they are produced. The tires are very smooth and slick feeling / looking because the rubber IS smooth and slick... because that's what they were molded to. You've got to scuff up a smooth rubber surface to get better grip and traction. A couple of laps will do this, leaning will do this. A scotch-brite pad will do this. I've seen racers at CMRA events using scotch-brite pads.

So, to sum it all up. Riding 200 miles on the tires as recommended by manufacturers is what they recommend so you can get used to the tire profile, so the tires get sufficiently 'scrubbed in', and if they are using any sort of mold-release compound, to get it broken down with heat so it comes off. For us riders, scrubbing in tires is a preference. If you do it with heat cycles, riding on the tires, weaving back and forth as far over as you can, taking a slow couple of laps at the track, busting out a scotch-brite pad, and/or using a tire cleaner... the important thing is to get used to the profile of the new tire, and get the tires to their optimal grip.
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Re: Tire width

Post by Rhino » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:44 pm

sckego wrote:I always thought heat cycles were bad for tires (race tires, at least) because it caused the rubber to harden over time. I've never heard of them being used to "break in" a tire. I remember one weekend out at Cresson, I wore out my old tires on Saturday and had a new set spooned on the next morning... one easy round-robin session, and the next session out I was dragging knee with Vic on the back. I always laughed when people would say they had to go on a long ride to scrub in their new tires before a trackday... no, you don't, you need two easy laps to scrub them in.
My understanding is that all rubber compounds start out a little hard, get softest with some number of heat cycles, then get hard again.

Race tires get softest on the first or second cycle, and are done after just a handful of cycles.

Street tires are designed to cycle a *lot* more, so it takes them a few cycles before they start to soften up, and a whole lot of cycles before they are done.

I agree that you can probably show up to the track with brand spanking new tires and scrub them in during the round robin and maybe your first "real" session.

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Re: Tire width

Post by Telomere » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:56 pm

Firewa11 wrote:Riding 200 miles on the tires as recommended by manufacturers is what they recommend so you can get used to the tire profile, so the tires get sufficiently 'scrubbed in', and if they are using any sort of mold-release compound, to get it broken down with heat so it comes off.
Looks like I will be taking care of this next weekend. Who's in? :-) I doubt you, Firewall, will be since you will be getting a little color on that white skin of yours down in Mexico :) This will consist of 200 laps around the block :D

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Re: Tire width

Post by Grinner » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:34 pm

At Barber I used two laps to take it easy and warm up the tires andthe rest of the session to scrub in before goin to level two.
Just my 2cts.
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Re: Tire width

Post by Firewa11 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:36 am

Hey don't be hatin' on my white pasty skin! :-)
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Re: Tire width

Post by El Diabro » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:32 pm

Firewa11 wrote:Hey don't be hatin' on my white pasty skin! :-)
:icon_whs0be: .....oh, wait, errrr uhmmm, I mean.....:)

Depending on what time everyone is riding I am always down for a ride. I have that Susan G Komen 5k sat morning, but can prob meet up at some point around noon or a little before. If you guys decide to go riding and scrubbing and you leave out before that, let me know where you're headed! I will be in Denton so I can always take the 'Busa and ride her out from there after the 5k is done :)
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Re: Tire width

Post by DemonDuck » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:38 pm

I am probably putting on new tires next week ... Wed I think and will scrub them in on Thurs and Fri.
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Re: Tire width

Post by fixxervi6 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:41 pm

DemonDuck wrote:I am probably putting on new tires next week ... Wed I think and will scrub them in on Thurs and Fri.
One other thing I like about the Q2's, their release compound wasn't nearly as greasy as michelines.
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Re: Tire width

Post by Telomere » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:24 pm

El Diabro wrote:
Firewa11 wrote:Hey don't be hatin' on my white pasty skin! :-)
:icon_whs0be: .....oh, wait, errrr uhmmm, I mean.....:)

Depending on what time everyone is riding I am always down for a ride. I have that Susan G Komen 5k sat morning, but can prob meet up at some point around noon or a little before. If you guys decide to go riding and scrubbing and you leave out before that, let me know where you're headed! I will be in Denton so I can always take the 'Busa and ride her out from there after the 5k is done :)
If I go for a ride Saturday, it will be in the afternoon because my daughter has a soccer game in the morning. Hit Fixxer up to see what the plans are, if there happen to be any. Good luck on that 5K!