Oil Thread

[DemonDuck]

I have to say I make every effort to change my oil every 3k miles and have used several different oils. I have tried Royal Purple ... Casteroil...Mobile 1 .... and allison oil. I have not seen much of a difference but my bike is at 55k miles and I have had it to each type of track. The dragstrip more than the street course but I believe the dragstrip can be harder on the engine. Either way I believe that my bike if I end up keeping it will make it over 100k miles. I havent even changed the clutch on it ... not sure if it has to do with my oil changes but hey.

[DarcShadow]

With all the oil talk figured I'd remind everyone of the oil filter cross index table.
http://www.fwmr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=18" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Most bike have room to run a larger oil filter and can easily fit a car or truck filter. In addition to being cheaper, they have more filter surface area, and allow you to get an extra half quart or so of oil in the bike which is a good thing.

[mahart]

1. What brand and weight of oil do you use for your bike(s)? Mobil 1 4T

2. Where do you normally purchase it, and at what (approximate) price per quart? Walmart/$9.99

3. At what mileage intervals do you normally change your oil? Why do you choose those particular intervals? 3-4K

4. Why are you using that particular brand? Cost? Availability? Bike manufacturer's recommendation? Man. rec.

5. What other brands have you tried? What was your experience with them? Silkolene, hard to find

[U-Turn]

1. What brand and weight of oil do you use for your bike(s)? This time Rotella T5, 10w-30

2. Where do you normally purchase it, and at what (approximate) price per quart? Walmart/$16 gallon

3. At what mileage intervals do you normally change your oil? Why do you choose those particular intervals? 5K

4. Why are you using that particular brand? Cost? Availability? Bike manufacturer's recommendation? Cost.

5. What other brands have you tried? What was your experience with them? Mobil1 Gold cap, Mobil1 Silver cap (both synthetic), Clean oil but my clutch was real smooth for a while which I find out is because of "friction modifiers" which I'm told is bad for a bike. (slipping on takeoff ever so slightly, for a few hundred miles) Repsol / nothing unusual happened other than I had clean oil in the engine. Now trying the Rotella T5 because of the information gleaned from the oil-info thread/article.

[milesmiles]

No need to start another thread, but after i get my bike put back together i'm running Rotella T6 5w-40 in the bike(blue bottle). I've already bought it and i'm ready! Everything i find points to nothing but good stuff and zero problems. Test show that it holds up to the high rpm conditions just fine and has more than plenty of life left after a 3k oil chainge. There is actually no bad talk about this stuff other than, "it isn't for motorcycles so you shouldn't run it". I plan on changing the oil every 3k or less and will be keeping close tabs on everything. I'll keep you posted on how it goes!

[Striple]

No need to start another thread, but after i get my bike put back together i'm running Rotella T6 5w-40 in the bike(blue bottle). I've already bought it and i'm ready! Everything i find points to nothing but good stuff and zero problems. Test show that it holds up to the high rpm conditions just fine and has more than plenty of life left after a 3k oil chainge. There is actually no bad talk about this stuff other than, "it isn't for motorcycles so you shouldn't run it". I plan on changing the oil every 3k or less and will be keeping close tabs on everything. I'll keep you posted on how it goes!

Sounds nice and all, but how are you going to determine "how it goes"? Without an oil analysis before and after changing to the new oil, you really aren't going to have any way to assess the performance of either oil.

[dufremle]

Make sure it doesn't say 'energy conserving' on the label. If it does then your clutches will slip as it contains friction modifiers.

[DarcShadow]

That varys from bike to bike anymore it seems. Some bikes can tolerate it, some can't. I do stay away from it, just to be ont he safe side. If you're changing oil every 3k, I don't think it matters to much what you use, unless you're bouncing off the rev limiter for that 3K you'll be fine with just about anything, even vegitable oil. ha!

[milesmiles]

Make sure it doesn't say 'energy conserving' on the label. If it does then your clutches will slip as it contains friction modifiers.

It doesn't.

Striple i've thought about doing the test you do, but i've already found two people that did that. It performed just as well as other oils. It saves me $30bucks every oil change, that isn't a lot but every bit helps.

[milesmiles]

Also i'll talk with you about it at bike night so i have a better understanding of the test. I'm just looking for something simple and cheap. This fits both and like Darc said @ 3000mi oil changes i'd say i'm doing actually better.

[Telomere]

Make sure it doesn't say 'energy conserving' on the label. If it does then your clutches will slip as it contains friction modifiers.

It doesn't.

Striple i've thought about doing the test you do, but i've already found two people that did that. It performed just as well as other oils. It saves me $30bucks every oil change, that isn't a lot but every bit helps.

Are the results the same for every bike that uses that oil? Do the results vary according to model and other factors like, how hard you ride?

[milesmiles]

Make sure it doesn't say 'energy conserving' on the label. If it does then your clutches will slip as it contains friction modifiers.

It doesn't.

Striple i've thought about doing the test you do, but i've already found two people that did that. It performed just as well as other oils. It saves me $30bucks every oil change, that isn't a lot but every bit helps.

Are the results the same for every bike that uses that oil? Do the results vary according to model and other factors like, how hard you ride?

all very valid questions. I ride pretty hard and the results came from other high rpm bikes. There are several people running it in the daytona 675 though. I'll be honest, i can't get into the whole "how does it work here, what were the test like there, what's the weather etc.... etcc..". That's why i always went with mobil 1 so i wouldn't have to do that. Now i'm trying to cut cost so i'm having to do some research, but i'm going to run the crap out of the oil and not worry too much about it. We shall see!

[DarcShadow]

well if you're wanting to cut cost and still change it very 3000, might as well go with dino oil. It'll serve you just fine for 3K, no need to go synthetic...unless you're racing anyway.

Or go the other way, buy the best synthetic you can find and then only change it every 6K or 7K. Seeing how synthetic is usually about double dino, you're breaking even at 6K, and coming out ahead anything greater.

[dufremle]

No two people ride the same. If you want to know how the oil works for you, then have it analyzed every 3000 to see when it needs to be replaced. A lot of factors go into how fast the oil degrades.

[fixxervi6]

I don't get the entire oil debate.

If you run good oil and change on a regular basis, I don't see what the big deal is.

I'm betting if you took 10 bikes and put 10 different types of oils in them, ran them all THE SAME at the end of 100,000 miles you wouldn't see much difference.

If one oil lets you squeek to 112,000 where as one only got you to 108,000... who cares

Just avoid the mason jar oil with the label on the side that says bobs discount engine oil made from recycled fryer vat oil and I bet you'll be ok.

[milesmiles]

it's my understanding once synthetic you can't ever go back. And yes i've thought about not changing my oil 6-7k on syn, but I just don't want to do that. I realize this might not be the best for my bike and that a lot of it is just curiosity. I would love to say "yeah i've been running rotella for years, with no problems", as so many people do.

Fixxer, i know oil matters. It would be dumb of me not to say that, but i'm in the same boat as you. Especially the 112k vs 108k, yeah i'm not going to care. And with this being said, i totally respect people who do care, it's your bike and we love our bikes!

[DarcShadow]

No two people ride the same. If you want to know how the oil works for you, then have it analyzed every 3000 to see when it needs to be replaced. A lot of factors go into how fast the oil degrades.

And what level of degradation is ok to run in your bike. It's all a bunch of black majic and no one really knows anything till they tear apart a motor and take a look at it. And even then, you don't know if the motor is in the condition it is because the oil, or because of some other problem. I've heard of people that change oil once a month, and I've heard of people that never change the oil, just the filter and top off the oil. Both ran their vehicles for years with no problems.

Just avoid the mason jar oil with the label on the side that says bobs discount engine oil made from recycled fryer vat oil and I bet you'll be ok.

I'd bet even that oil would be fine if you changed it often enough.

it's my understanding once synthetic you can't ever go back.

That's incorrect. You can even mix synthetic and dino, although it kind of defeats the purpose of the synthetic.

[fixxervi6]

it's my understanding once synthetic you can't ever go back. And yes i've thought about not changing my oil 6-7k on syn, but I just don't want to do that. I realize this might not be the best for my bike and that a lot of it is just curiosity. I would love to say "yeah i've been running rotella for years, with no problems", as so many people do.

Fixxer, i know oil matters. It would be dumb of me not to say that, but i'm in the same boat as you. Especially the 112k vs 108k, yeah i'm not going to care. And with this being said, i totally respect people who do care, it's your bike and we love our bikes!

I run synthetic and change every 4K or every track day, it's most likely overkill.

I do it because, it's "probably" better, but that's about as much work as I'm going to put into it

[DarcShadow]

Every trackday is almost certanly overkill, but to each his own. My last oil change was 7k which included 4 days at barber, 7 days around The Dragon, and 4 or 5 trackdays in Texas. Yeah, I probably pushed the oil a bit too far, but didn't have any problems and the oil didn't look bad when I drained it. I should of kept a sample and sent it off for analysis, would of been interesting to see how it came back.

[Striple]

Some of the responses here perfectly illustrate the reason why I choose to regularly investigate the condition of the oil in all of my bikes. Anytime there is an oil thread on just about any forum, you see lots of "I've heard that...", or "...and I've never had any problems", and other completely inductive statements. The fact is that very few people are actually making the effort to objectively assess the performance of the oil they use, and are instead essentially making an assessment by the seat of their pants. DS is correct in that most oils will perform the job well enough to keep the rider from noticing any issues throughout the typical time of ownership. If you follow some ambiguous oil change interval, such as the traditional 3k miles, 4k miles, 4 track days plus xyz miles, or whatever, you're more than likely reasonably close to the interval that would be recommended if you actually had data to look at. However, if you want to schedule oil change intervals that actually make sense and are based on data from your particular machine, then you really have no choice but to have an oil analysis done. Every individual engine is somewhat unique, as is every person's riding style, the climate that it is being operated in, the amount of usage, the amount of wear, and so on. All of these are parameters that affect oil performance.

For example, I used to run Mobil 1 High Mileage FS oil in the SV. It ran perfectly fine, but without an oil analysis I would have never realized that the amount of track usage that I was putting on the engine was shearing down this particular type of oil. Viscosity levels dropped drastically, and metal count was pretty high -- a perfect recipe for an early engine rebuild. I switched to an oil that was much more resistant to shearing in that engine, Amsoil MCF, and successfully reversed that trend. There was absolutely zero difference in how the bike felt between running these two different type of oils, and without oil analyses I would not have been able to determine that there was an actual difference in the performance of these two oils.

Of course, to each their own, but it is easy and not very expensive to do, and it allows me to schedule oil change intervals that are based on something other than mere hearsay.

[fixxervi6]

did they suggest a type of oil to change to or did you just wing it?

[Striple]

did they suggest a type of oil to change to or did you just wing it?

No winging, that would defeat the purpose. Labs that perform oil analyses are typically not in the business of recommending certain brands, but they do suggest particular attributes to look for. I then went and researched oils that performed particularly well given those circumstances, which was again based on trends seen in oil analyses performed by others.

[fixxervi6]

did they suggest a type of oil to change to or did you just wing it?

No winging, that would defeat the purpose. Labs that perform oil analyses are typically not in the business of recommending certain brands, but they do suggest particular attributes to look for. I then went and researched oils that performed particularly well given those circumstances, which was again based on trends seen in oil analyses performed by others.

Now that is a bit different, now I can see the value.

[dufremle]

Striple, approx. how many miles do you go between oil changes based on the analysis? I'm curious as I have thought about doing the oil analysis but I haven't yet. I normally just change my oil/filter every 5,000 miles (Amsoil 10W-40 and Ea-103 filter).

[Striple]

Striple, approx. how many miles do you go between oil changes based on the analysis? I'm curious as I have thought about doing the oil analysis but I haven't yet. I normally just change my oil/filter every 5,000 miles (Amsoil 10W-40 and Ea-103 filter).

I'm still in the process of determining the right oil change interval based on the analyses. The first step was to find the proper oil for the SV, now the next step is to zero in on the proper oil change interval between track days. For the CBR and the C-14, I know I can get at least 4-5k miles out of the oil, with proper viscosity levels and still plenty of active additives left. I will keep you updated as I continue to get closer to the "ideal" oil change interval for each bike.