Weird clutch issue

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nitzer
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Weird clutch issue

Post by nitzer » Mon May 14, 2012 1:40 pm

Just wondering what might cause this issue. If I get on the bike in the morning (cold), the clutch seems fine. If I'm riding and get the bike up to temp, then stop, shutdown the bike, let's say go into a store for 10-30min, then get back on while the bike is still warm - the clutch acts funny. I can pull the clutch in and put the transmission in 1st with no issues. The issues start when I try to get the bike into the friction zone and start moving. I can rev it up with the clutch disengaged and in 1st gear, but as soon as I try to get underway the RPMs drop to zero and the bike stalls. Basically acts like I didn't give it enough gas and stalls, but I know I have given it enough throttle to get underway under normal circumstances. I can even rev it up to 6k with the same result. It will do this repeatedly (have had it happen 6-10 times in a row). Only after I rev it even higher (like 10k) and basically drop the clutch it will lurch forward and start moving. I am a new rider and I am aware of the friction zone and how to use it, but this is very different. As soon as I'm underway again, the clutch seems to act normally. It's almost like the clutch is stuck and doesn't start spinning when put in the friction zone. Anyone had this happen? No signs of a slipping clutch, power is good. No problems shifting. No funny smells or weird sounds. If the bike sits overnight, I don't have this issue. It is a 2007 and has 4300 miles on it. Bought it used from a private party and I'm probably the 3rd owner. It seems they only put 250 miles on it all of last year. I've already clocked 600 miles on it in the last month. I didn't have my license at the time when I bought it so I wasn't able to ride it and really put it through it's paces. Right now it is running a little lean (pops some from the exhaust on down shifts). If I knew then what I know now I would've kept looking and passed this bike up. I'll be taking it to have the carbs cleaned and checked soon to get rid of the lean issue. Any thoughts?
- Derek
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by fixxervi6 » Mon May 14, 2012 1:57 pm

The RPM's drop to zero THEN the bike stalls, while moving?

If it's dropping to 0 while your moving then the engine stalls that doesn't sound like a clutch issue. I don't know how the tach works on that bike, but I had an old buick that the tach worked off of the coil, the RPM's would drop to 0 whenever the coil would cut out.

Motorcycle clutches are insanely simple machines, this doesn't sound like a clutch issue to me. But take that for what it's worth, I'm not a mechanic.
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by milesmiles » Mon May 14, 2012 2:01 pm

--It was the damn clutch cable linkage. Too loose on one end, and too tight on the lever.
or it might be some of the other things they mentioned in the link down below
http://pnwriders.com/mechanical-technic ... lutch.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by nitzer » Mon May 14, 2012 2:03 pm

fixxervi6 wrote:The RPM's drop to zero THEN the bike stalls, while moving?

If it's dropping to 0 while your moving then the engine stalls that doesn't sound like a clutch issue. I don't know how the tach works on that bike, but I had an old buick that the tach worked off of the coil, the RPM's would drop to 0 whenever the coil would cut out.

Motorcycle clutches are insanely simple machines, this doesn't sound like a clutch issue to me. But take that for what it's worth, I'm not a mechanic.
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by fixxervi6 » Mon May 14, 2012 2:05 pm

So you go to take off, let the clutch out, bike doesn't move, and it just stalls? But it does this after it's warm, if it sit's over night there is no issue?

Having a hard time picturing in my head what exactly your talking about.

I'm high as a kite off of cold meds so it's probably me, not you.
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by Fender943 » Mon May 14, 2012 2:06 pm

Sounds like fuel starvation.
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by fixxervi6 » Mon May 14, 2012 2:09 pm

I was thinking it sounded fuel related too, but trying to get a clearer picture in my head of what the issue is.

Both two fiddies in this house have had fueling issues, so I'm curious about this case.
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by nitzer » Mon May 14, 2012 2:11 pm

Maybe I'm being too complicated in my explanation. Start your bike put in 1st gear - don't give it any gas - dump the clutch. It will stall. That is what mine is doing only I am giving it gas (sometimes as high as 6k RPMs) and not just dumping the clutch. It's still stalling unless I rev it up to like 10k and let the clutch out. The clutch seems to operate fine shifting through the gears. Bike does not move in first gear with the clutch pulled in.
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by fixxervi6 » Mon May 14, 2012 2:14 pm

yea, not a clutch issue.

The newer 250 had fuel mixture issues and was a stall monster, adjusted the needles and it's like a new bike, easier to start etc. Not saying that's what is wrong here, but your not having clutch issues, I'd be willing to bet on that part.

Older 250 had fuel starvation issues, I fixed that but ended up putting the carbs way out of sync in the process, so I handed it off to a pro to finish up :))

Did the problem just start?

Have you ever run sea foam through the gas before?

Any rust in the gas tank that you can see with a flash light?

Have you ever had the bowls off the carbs?

Does it smell rich, or run hot?
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by Firewa11 » Mon May 14, 2012 2:17 pm

Wait... you said bike will not move in first gear with the clutch pulled in?

Ok, back to thinking a clutch issue. Your bike should move freely just like it were in neutral with the clutch lever pulled in. If it's not, the clutch isn't working. Could be cable, or the clutch itself. See a mechanic!
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by fixxervi6 » Mon May 14, 2012 2:18 pm

Firewa11 wrote:Wait... you said bike will not move in first gear with the clutch pulled in?

Ok, back to thinking a clutch issue. Your bike should move freely just like it were in neutral with the clutch lever pulled in. If it's not, the clutch isn't working. Could be cable, or the clutch itself. See a mechanic!
I took that as, when I pull the clutch in, while in first gear the bike doesn't try to move forward, and it just idles.

As for the mechanic, that is the safest bet, otherwise, I know someone selling an SV650
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by Fender943 » Mon May 14, 2012 2:19 pm

I say clean, sync and adjust the idle on the carbs..
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by Rhino » Mon May 14, 2012 2:33 pm

Sounds like a fuel issue to me too. It's not a problem with the clutch, it's that the engine is really barely running so any load makes it stall.

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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by nitzer » Mon May 14, 2012 2:43 pm

Yeah, what I meant about the clutch is that it seems to be fully disengaging as in when it's pulled in, the bike just sits and idles normally (doesn't try to walk forward as if the clutch partially engaged). Clutch seem to fully engage or disengage normally. It's just hard for me to conceive that reving the bike up to 6k and letting the clutch out to the friction zone could cause the fuel to cut out and stall the bike, but I will defer that to someone who knows more about bikes than me. Once the bike is moving it doesn't stall. It's just the initial getting it moving that has an issue. After that, everything is fine. This is what happened to me at lunch today. Went to lunch at noon. Bike had been sitting since 9 am. Rode 15 miles to lunch. Bike sat for about an hour while we were at lunch. Came out started right up with very little choke. Tried to get underway - stall. Reved it up to 6k and let the clutch out - stall. Reved up to 10k and let the clutch out slowly...just about stalled. Basically reved it up to 10k and let the clutch out fairly fast and it started to move. Drove 200ft to the stop sign, pulled the clutch in, stopped, and took off as normal with no issues.
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by nitzer » Mon May 14, 2012 2:44 pm

Rhino wrote:Sounds like a fuel issue to me too. It's not a problem with the clutch, it's that the engine is really barely running so any load makes it stall.
But the engine is running at like 6k when the clutch was released. I would say that is far from barely running... :D
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by nitzer » Mon May 14, 2012 2:45 pm

fixxervi6 wrote:
Firewa11 wrote:As for the mechanic, that is the safest bet, otherwise, I know someone selling an SV650
Believe me, I would love to buy that bike. :(
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by fixxervi6 » Mon May 14, 2012 2:48 pm

It doesn't take much fuel to spin an engine up to 6K with no load.

The newer 250 was WAY too lean on the bottom, you could sit and rev it to red line all day lone if you wanted to, as soon as you tried to move foward it would just die.

The older 250 would idle, and rev up fine, soon as you start moving and putting the engine under load it would choke off and die, fuel starved.

Your problem is in the fuel system, not the clutch.

If your bike is warm (road it to lunch) and your having to choke it to get it started again on a warm day, sounds like it may be lean anyway on top of any other starvation issues you may have.
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by nitzer » Mon May 14, 2012 2:50 pm

Did the problem just start? Probably did it for the first time a couple of weeks ago.

Have you ever run sea foam through the gas before? I've run 3 tanks of gas through it since I've bought it. 2 of them have had sea foam in them to try and clean out the fuel system.

Any rust in the gas tank that you can see with a flash light? No rust that I can see. Ran the tank dry and been filling up on premium ever since. Gas looks pretty clear in the tank.

Have you ever had the bowls off the carbs? Nope.

Does it smell rich, or run hot? No, it's running lean as far as I can tell.
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2008 Honda VFR 800 Interceptor (Street)

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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by nitzer » Mon May 14, 2012 2:53 pm

fixxervi6 wrote:It doesn't take much fuel to spin an engine up to 6K with no load.

The newer 250 was WAY too lean on the bottom, you could sit and rev it to red line all day lone if you wanted to, as soon as you tried to move foward it would just die.

The older 250 would idle, and rev up fine, soon as you start moving and putting the engine under load it would choke off and die, fuel starved.

Your problem is in the fuel system, not the clutch.

If your bike is warm (road it to lunch) and your having to choke it to get it started again on a warm day, sounds like it may be lean anyway on top of any other starvation issues you may have.

Sounds like I just need to get it over to Family Powersports, but that will have to be next week since I don't have my truck up here this week to drop it off. If I were to sell it and buy the SV, I couldn't sell it in good conscience in the current running condition. I know, that's just me since the person that sold it to me didn't have the same consideration.... :razz:
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by fixxervi6 » Mon May 14, 2012 2:55 pm

I'm not a carb guru, but if this was my bike, first thing I would do is look in the tank with a flash light, for rust. Fresh gas will be clear, but if there are flakes in the gas tank or even surface rust in the tank, that is a sign, and look for how much of it.

If the tank showed signs of rust, I'd drain the tank and break open the petcock, it doesn't take much gunk in that thing to cause fuel starvation, I know, I've had to deal with that already on a 250. If the pet cock has garbage in it, I'd break down the entire fuel system cause you know the carbs are gonna be ugly.

I'd then brake the bowls open and pull the float valves, if the float vavles springy thingy on the end is stuck (like mine were) the bowls won't fill up with gas, so as soon as you NEED the gas, you don't have it, but it'll idle fine, and even rev up fine.

If all of that is gunky, I'd pull the jets and soak them in carb cleaner. Pulling the carbs on that bike is a pita, you have to pull the rear fender and slide everything out the back, or take it out the side, or cut the battery box off and pull it out that way.
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by fixxervi6 » Mon May 14, 2012 2:57 pm

nitzerebbhead wrote:
fixxervi6 wrote:It doesn't take much fuel to spin an engine up to 6K with no load.

The newer 250 was WAY too lean on the bottom, you could sit and rev it to red line all day lone if you wanted to, as soon as you tried to move foward it would just die.

The older 250 would idle, and rev up fine, soon as you start moving and putting the engine under load it would choke off and die, fuel starved.

Your problem is in the fuel system, not the clutch.

If your bike is warm (road it to lunch) and your having to choke it to get it started again on a warm day, sounds like it may be lean anyway on top of any other starvation issues you may have.

Sounds like I just need to get it over to Family Powersports, but that will have to be next week since I don't have my truck up here this week to drop it off. If I were to sell it and buy the SV, I couldn't sell it in good conscience in the current running condition. I know, that's just me since the person that sold it to me didn't have the same consideration.... :razz:
If you were to sell it be up front and your clean, just be honost about the condition and if they choose to buy then your clear. Or take the time to clean the fuel system, then sell it, or clean up the fuel system and ride the hell out of it.
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by milesmiles » Mon May 14, 2012 2:58 pm

sea foam! FTMFW
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by nitzer » Mon May 14, 2012 3:03 pm

fixxervi6 wrote: If you were to sell it be up front and your clean, just be honost about the condition and if they choose to buy then your clear. Or take the time to clean the fuel system, then sell it, or clean up the fuel system and ride the hell out of it.
Yeah, I know. I'm still waiting for the dang title in the mail from transferring it to me...
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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by nitzer » Mon May 14, 2012 3:16 pm

Just took a look at the tank with my buddies Surefire flashlight. Fuel looks clear with no little floaties....

Hey Bryce, do you do housecalls? LOL
- Derek
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2008 Honda VFR 800 Interceptor (Street)

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Re: Weird clutch issue

Post by fixxervi6 » Mon May 14, 2012 3:23 pm

nitzerebbhead wrote:Just took a look at the tank with my buddies Surefire flashlight. Fuel looks clear with no little floaties....

Hey Bryce, do you do housecalls? LOL
rust won't float :)
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