TwinPeaks-Waco

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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by Rhino » Fri May 22, 2015 9:14 am

Everybody needs to check themselves on the "criminals deserve to die" talk. That attitude is bullshit.

Last I checked our club doesn't follow all the traffic laws all the time. WE are criminals. There are plenty of people who look at sport bikers the same way some of you are looking at 1%ers. There's a YouTube video out there of some dude in a truck trying to run over a guy on a sport bike because some other guy on a sport bike did something to him once. That's *exactly* the same attitude as "they're wearing patches, fuck 'em".

I'm with Stardog on this one. If it turns out all the deaths were cop-related, I'm going to be fucking livid. Cops don't get the right to murder people, even criminals. That's what judges and the death penalty are for. Unless there were bullet holes from biker guns in the restaurant or the cop cars, it was probably murder by cop.

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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by milesmiles » Fri May 22, 2015 9:20 am

I'm actually agreeing with you....but, ask yourself the same question as i did before.

If you pull a gun on me in an aggressive manner, don't be surprised when i try to shoot you....idiot
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by fixxervi6 » Fri May 22, 2015 9:31 am

Rhino wrote:Last I checked our club doesn't follow all the traffic laws all the time. WE are criminals. .
Speak for yourself, I never go over the speed limit.

Ever.
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by milesmiles » Fri May 22, 2015 9:34 am

fixxervi6 wrote:
Rhino wrote:Last I checked our club doesn't follow all the traffic laws all the time. WE are criminals. .
Speak for yourself, I never go over the speed limit.

Ever.
Back when you had a gsxr i would say that to be true.
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by Polokid69 » Fri May 22, 2015 10:11 am

I think we are looking at differences in opinion and symantics on what a criminal is. My definition is drug dealers, rapists, murders, common theifs. I don't think of someone speeding as a criminal unless they are intoxicated or they run over somebody. I never said I don't value human life ,Stardog! But if someone pulls a gun on me or my family , I'm gonna value mine over the perps
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by dufremle » Fri May 22, 2015 10:39 am

There is a BIG difference between speeding and beating someone up. Big difference. Once weapons come out all bets are off.
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by DemonDuck » Fri May 22, 2015 12:03 pm

As I said before, I am waiting for the facts then I'll talk more on it. Till then no need in getting all up in arms over it.
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by LonestarCBR » Fri May 22, 2015 2:00 pm

Rhino wrote:Everybody needs to check themselves on the "criminals deserve to die" talk. That attitude is bullshit.

Last I checked our club doesn't follow all the traffic laws all the time. WE are criminals. There are plenty of people who look at sport bikers the same way some of you are looking at 1%ers. There's a YouTube video out there of some dude in a truck trying to run over a guy on a sport bike because some other guy on a sport bike did something to him once. That's *exactly* the same attitude as "they're wearing patches, fuck 'em".

I'm with Stardog on this one. If it turns out all the deaths were cop-related, I'm going to be fucking livid. Cops don't get the right to murder people, even criminals. That's what judges and the death penalty are for. Unless there were bullet holes from biker guns in the restaurant or the cop cars, it was probably murder by cop.
Well hell, thought I was allowed to have an opinion.

Is there a thread that lists what opinions I should have so I don't offend anyone again? :HeadScratch: :(( :-D

Seriously, I hate it people died, but I'm much more comfortable with it being the guys who were looking for trouble than innocent civilians, or cops. Sorry, it's just where I respectfully stand on the issue.
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by fixxervi6 » Fri May 22, 2015 2:12 pm

LonestarCBR wrote: Well hell, thought I was allowed to have an opinion.

Is there a thread that lists what opinions I should have so I don't offend anyone again? :HeadScratch: :(( :-D

Seriously, I hate it people died, but I'm much more comfortable with it being the guys who were looking for trouble than innocent civilians, or cops. Sorry, it's just where I respectfully stand on the issue.
Free speech is only free until it offends someone - if you have an opinion on any subject, someone, somewhere will get offended. So long as there are no personal attacks happening simply be prepared for people to be offended and don't throw gas on it when they become offended.

I would like to refer you here:
http://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck#.sgwsmg:9SP6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If your worried about offending someone, probably shouldn't express those opinions, if you feel like expressing your opinions just be prepared to "not give a fuck".

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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by fixxervi6 » Fri May 22, 2015 2:13 pm

On a separate note

:???: If there are any personal attacks thrown from anyone I'll delete the post, if the poster repeats they will be banned regardless of who they are. If people are not mature enough to express differences of opinion in a civil way this is not the thread to be in :???:
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by fixxervi6 » Fri May 22, 2015 2:20 pm

Interesting viewpoint:

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/05/ ... gathering/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by milesmiles » Fri May 22, 2015 2:22 pm

I hate everybody, it's not personal
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by fixxervi6 » Fri May 22, 2015 2:30 pm

milesmiles wrote:I hate everybody, it's not personal
You must hate everyone equally, otherwise your just a bigot
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by milesmiles » Fri May 22, 2015 2:41 pm

That might be true
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by JTChiTown » Fri May 22, 2015 2:55 pm

Some interesting points brought up by all. Even if all of us have committed 1 or 2 minor traffic violations in the past, would we ever expect a law-enforcment response to culminate in the loss of our life at the end of a service weapons barrel? I certainly dont.

I don't have much sympathy if the 9 dead were killed after drawing weapons around police. If 1 of the 9 escalated a bar fight with a switchblade, that doesn't allow for 9 dead. I think we can all agree on that. Chances are all of the dead committed some crime in their lifetime. Maybe some were serious, maybe they weren't, but their lifestyle choice doesn't vacate their rights.

The issue is, we may never fully know what happened. It's like the age old debate of who shot first, the British Soldiers or the militia?

The truth here is like most other truths, somewhere between both sides of the story. If it isnt, a lot of people have a lot of explaining to do and unfortunately have just given these crews a virtual get out of jail free card to operate this summer.
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by Telomere » Fri May 22, 2015 4:26 pm

JTChiTown wrote:Chances are all of the dead committed some crime in their lifetime. Maybe some were serious, maybe they weren't, but their lifestyle choice doesn't vacate their rights.
While it is not illegal to be a gang, obviously all illegal acts are what gives them their bad rap. Regardless of who the person is (doctor, lawyer, school teacher, vet, etc), if they are in a gang, they are associated with the gang and it's reputation. If the reputation has been involvement in many illegal acts, regardless of whether this person has engaged in those so called acts, they will be associated with them. NOW, just because they are in a gang, that doesn't mean THEY have committed any illegal acts (their gang buddies may have committed them) but they are automatically labeled as such because of the gangs reputation and also because the word gang doesn't imply some heartfelt charity that does nothing but good deeds. This is where their guilty by association comes in. If you don't want to be associated or labeled as such, stay away from it. Also, just because the gang members don't have any criminal records, that doesn't mean they are innocent. That means that they either have seriously never committed any act to get arrested for OR they were never caught and charged.

None of us were there. As far as I know, NONE of us are in or associated with any of those gangs that were involved in the bar fight/shoot out in Waco. Without ALL of the facts, pointing fingers does absolutely nothing. We can all speculate as to what happened. I speculate that the cops had someone undercover in one of those gangs for quite a while (hence the this shit has been brewing for a while"). If the cops had an undercover cop or a mole/rat (whatever the informant is called) than they knew what was going on or going to happen, hence the reason they were all parked outside of the restaurant. They are not going to tell us if they had an undercover cop because that would blow his cover and put him and his family at risk. None of us are on the Waco police force so none of us know what they were doing outside the restaurant just sitting and waiting. We can only speculate. I have read that CCTV cameras in the restaurant have been viewed by media and the police force and will not be released to the public (at least not right now). I have also read that the first shot was from a biker INSIDE the restaurant. I have also read that the firs shot was made by a biker running back inside the restaurant on the patio. The owner has also stated that NO shots were fired inside the restaurant at all. None of the 9 cameras on the outside of the building face the part of the parking lot that this shindig went down in. Planned in advance? I don't know. Conincidence? I don't know. We most likely will never know. UNTIL all the facts are out, people need to stop pointing fingers about who was right or wrong. We were not there and do not know even half of the facts.

I do think that the media and government have conspired to outrage the public so they can take more of our freedoms away. First it is/was the race issue. While racism is still a big concern, the media and other people are making issues that have NOTHING to do about race, about race. They are adding fuel to the fire just to get people all pissed off (to start a race war). There is a better way to go about that than starting a race war (be part of the solution not part of the problem). Second is the cop issue. While police brutality is an issue and there are corrupt cops, NOT all cops fall into one or both of these categories. The media seems to be starting something that will cause the people to riot against the police. IF this happens, what do you think Obama will do? We will lose more freedoms than we have already lost. People don't stop and think. They just act. That is equivalent to putting your foot in your mouth (when you speak before you think).

That is my $0.02 and I am done.
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by Pooty » Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 pm

Good 2 cents Telo
Marshal law? Lot of speculation on a lot of things
going on in this world nowadays

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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by Telomere » Fri May 22, 2015 8:29 pm

Pooty wrote:Good 2 cents Telo
Marshal law? Lot of speculation on a lot of things
going on in this world nowadays
And the media and social outlets are to blame. I do believe cops are too brutal but I believe it has always been that way. We are just seeing more of it because of the internet and social media outlets. The same goes for the racial news lately too. It's been around but if you don't experience, you don't think about it and when it's blasted all over every webpage, you can't ignore it. Since people react to cop brutality and racism, media will make just about anything seem to be about one of the two or both just for ratings. I am not saying this Waco thing was not cop brutality. I am just saying that the media feeds the rest of us what it wants us to hear (along with a hand from the government). At least it isn't the Chinese government....yet. :D
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by DarcShadow » Sat May 23, 2015 7:03 am

I think they need to stop calling these guys gangs and call them what they really are, organized crime. 500+ members is not a gang, that's an organization.
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by 111 » Sat May 23, 2015 2:47 pm

Grand prairie police were posted around the longhorn HD today in armored vehicles during their event.
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by dufremle » Mon May 25, 2015 10:44 pm

Supposedly from one of the Cossacks leaders.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ric ... ar-BBkeBjX" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by LonestarCBR » Tue May 26, 2015 6:38 am

dufremle wrote:Supposedly from one of the Cossacks leaders.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ric ... ar-BBkeBjX" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Interesting reading.
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by Rhino » Tue May 26, 2015 10:17 am

dufremle wrote:There is a BIG difference between speeding and beating someone up. Big difference. Once weapons come out all bets are off.
Name a bigger weapon than a vehicle going 100mph.

Why is drunk driving such a big deal? Because vehicles are *deadly*.

How would you feel if on an intermediate ride, someone lost control and hit a car head-on? How would you feel if you were in the car?

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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by dufremle » Tue May 26, 2015 10:40 am

dufremle wrote:There is a BIG difference between speeding and beating someone up. Big difference. Once weapons come out all bets are off.
Rhino wrote:Name a bigger weapon than a vehicle going 100mph.
Airplanes, trucks, boats, etc. All vehicles are deadly. I don't understand your point.
Rhino wrote:Why is drunk driving such a big deal? Because vehicles are *deadly*.
See response above.
Rhino wrote:How would you feel if on an intermediate ride, someone lost control and hit a car head-on? How would you feel if you were in the car?
That is the chance we take by riding a motorcycle. Even getting on one to run down to the grocery store can have serious consequences if you get hit. Riding is dangerous. If you aren't willing to accept that you could easily be killed on a motorcycle then you shouldn't be riding a motorcycle.

Regardless, your items have nothing to do with my original statement. I do not believe you should be shot/killed for speeding, unless you are actively putting someone else's life in danger, such as speeding through a crowd of pedestrians. However, if you are beating someone else with a weapon, then yes, you should be shot/killed if necessary to stop the attack. Each incident should be looked at based on what was happening at the time.
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Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by fixxervi6 » Tue May 26, 2015 10:56 am

Rhino wrote:
dufremle wrote:There is a BIG difference between speeding and beating someone up. Big difference. Once weapons come out all bets are off.
Name a bigger weapon than a vehicle going 100mph.

Why is drunk driving such a big deal? Because vehicles are *deadly*.

How would you feel if on an intermediate ride, someone lost control and hit a car head-on? How would you feel if you were in the car?
Not sure where your going, apples and oranges -

If you pull a weapon on a person with intent to inflict harm that would be the same as driving a vehicle 100mph head on into another vehicle with intent to do harm.

If you are driving a vehicle at 100mph with no intent to do harm but you end up hitting someone head on anyway, not on purpose, that's called an "accident" (people are still dead but it's not the same).

You don't accidentally draw a gun and then accidentally pull the trigger, you don't accidentally get behind the wheel drunk, you don't accidentally jab a knife into someones gut several times.

Intent is everything, if you don't believe it then you haven't been involved in the legal and court system the way I have been and you may want to research the impact intent has.
Polokid69 wrote:I think we are looking at differences in opinion and symantics on what a criminal is. My definition is drug dealers, rapists, murders, common theifs. I don't think of someone speeding as a criminal unless they are intoxicated or they run over somebody. I never said I don't value human life ,Stardog! But if someone pulls a gun on me or my family , I'm gonna value mine over the perps
One good way is looking at who the victim of the "crime" is.

If I fire up a bowl and get stoned in my own house, I'm breaking the law and therefore I am a criminal? Who was the victim of my crime.

If I load up a needle and shoot some shit into a vein, who was the victim of my crime.

If I walk into a 7/11, shoot the clerk, take the money, the rape someone on the way out the door, who was the victim of my crime.

If I get on the toll road and bump it up to 20mph over the speed limit, who was the victim of my crime.

If I molest a child, who is is the victim(s) of my crime.

Victim less crimes are bull shit and are punished too harshly while crimes with victims get off way too easy. In the above offenses, do any of them make you a "criminal"? If so, there is not a single American that is NOT a criminal.
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