TwinPeaks-Waco

This section can be controversial. All opinions and arguments are welcome. Personal attacks are not acceptable.
Telomere
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 10014
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:35 pm
Achievement count: 22
Location: Fort Worth/ Watauga

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by Telomere » Thu May 21, 2015 9:15 am

This is what the government wants so they can bring in the UN troops to search every US citizen's home and seize weapons of any kind.
Chance favors the prepared mind.

User avatar
fixxervi6
Ride Leader
Ride Leader
Posts: 13832
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:41 pm
Achievement count: 36

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by fixxervi6 » Thu May 21, 2015 9:15 am

Stardog84 wrote:Irrelevant. The people who showed up after the fact have nothing to do with the police opening fire.
Well hold on here, what "proof" has been made public, I don't' believe half the dribble faux news and other state run media put out there as it is, and I've already seen a ton of race related stuff go up around this, talk about the misinformation highway being in overdrive.
K1600

User avatar
milesmiles
Ride Leader
Ride Leader
Posts: 13622
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:40 pm
Riding Style: Advanced Track Rider
Achievement count: 27
Location: Denton

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by milesmiles » Thu May 21, 2015 9:24 am

Just to clarify, did the bikers ever shoot?
The world needs Miles
Sometimes you gotta draw the line, but that doesn't mean it can't be squiggly-miles
"it's not a stupid dirt bike, it's a supermoto!"-miles

User avatar
fixxervi6
Ride Leader
Ride Leader
Posts: 13832
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:41 pm
Achievement count: 36

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by fixxervi6 » Thu May 21, 2015 9:25 am

milesmiles wrote:Just to clarify, did the bikers ever shoot?
Depends on which news source you use
K1600

User avatar
LonestarCBR
Posts: 7573
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:39 pm
Riding Style: Intermediate Track Rider
Achievement count: 32
Location: Stephenville, Texas

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by LonestarCBR » Thu May 21, 2015 9:29 am

Stardog84 wrote:
LonestarCBR wrote:Well, my intent isn't for this to turn into a pissin' match, but as Jim pointed out, this is one slanted point of view, at best.

Comparing FWMR and Outlaw Biker Gangs is a little bit of a stretch.

I was only using that as a comparison for the number of people who were shot for the actions of one. My stance is that murder is evil, and murder by "public servants" is particularly evil. So again, if I were to brandish a weapon while you and I were out and about I do not believe that your family would deserve to bury you over it.
Well, for me you're not comparing apples to apples, nor any other fruit for that matter.

That being said, if I were conducting myself in criminal actiivty with a loaded weapon in a public setting, and the cops deemed it necessary to shoot me to control potential loss of innocent civilian life because of my erratic/destructive/criminal behavior and inability to comply with their instructions, then so be it. And that's assuming they even have time to say "freeze, drop the weapon". I just hope you're not with me while I doing that dumbass shit.

I can't think of anything much more sad than my poor behavior causing the death of family or a friend. The fact that these guys cared more about "turf" and whatever else that implies places them down the ladder a little on my sympathy meter. Sad yes, but sadder loss of life occurs than this.
~ Terry
'12 Speed Triple 1050 ABS, '07 GSX-R750 (track)
Happiness isn't around the corner, it IS the corner.
Anybody can jump a motorcycle. The trouble begins when you try to land it. EK
Image

User avatar
fixxervi6
Ride Leader
Ride Leader
Posts: 13832
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:41 pm
Achievement count: 36

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by fixxervi6 » Thu May 21, 2015 9:32 am

Until recently, it was unknown to me, but apparently one of my Facebook diver friends runs with these guys. He believes the brawl started over a non bandito wearing a Texas rocker - I'm sorry I don't care how nice you are that sounds like straight up gang stuff right there.

If the police did use this as an opportunity just to gun some people down, what would the motivation be?
K1600

User avatar
LonestarCBR
Posts: 7573
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:39 pm
Riding Style: Intermediate Track Rider
Achievement count: 32
Location: Stephenville, Texas

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by LonestarCBR » Thu May 21, 2015 9:49 am

They're all bad, in case you haven't been paying attention lately.

Yes, that's heavily laced with sarcasm. Okay, drowning in sarcasm.
~ Terry
'12 Speed Triple 1050 ABS, '07 GSX-R750 (track)
Happiness isn't around the corner, it IS the corner.
Anybody can jump a motorcycle. The trouble begins when you try to land it. EK
Image

Telomere
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 10014
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:35 pm
Achievement count: 22
Location: Fort Worth/ Watauga

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by Telomere » Thu May 21, 2015 9:52 am

LonestarCBR wrote:They're all bad, in case you haven't been paying attention lately.

Yes, that's heavily laced with sarcasm. Okay, drowning in sarcasm.
Let me get you life raft so you can stay afloat!!
Chance favors the prepared mind.

User avatar
dufremle
Club Staff/Treasurer
Club Staff/Treasurer
Posts: 12567
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:57 am
Riding Style: Novice Track Rider
Achievement count: 0
Location: NW Fort Worth
Contact:

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by dufremle » Thu May 21, 2015 9:58 am

I read it on the internet, so it must be true.
Jim

2024 Subaru Crosstrek
2017 Toyota 4Runner

User avatar
DemonDuck
Honorary Club Member
Honorary Club Member
Posts: 7623
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:21 am
Riding Style: Intermediate Track Rider
Achievement count: 40
Location: Litchfield, Il

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by DemonDuck » Thu May 21, 2015 11:58 am

So if the police did nothing then the story would read that the biker gangs had a little war killing ? people while the police stood by and let it all happen.

I can tell you that I have been in a situation where some of these "biker gangs" came to a place that I was at with my family. I simply left the area right away. If I have to pick a bad guy out that is not the bikers then it would be the establishment. I think it was reported that all the other places in the area had shut down to prevent their customers from being at risk and the Twin Peaks had been asked by police to do the same but refused. In any case Twin Peaks sells enough adult beverages that even with a CCL it is illegal to have a weapon in the place.

I don't know what really happened but when all the info is out and we have video and such which we will then I will make my decision on who was in the wrong. I tend to take all the news that comes out so quick with a grain of salt as none of the evidence is available until after the investigation is complete.
~Jeremiah~ AKA DemonDuck
Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.

2012 BMW S1000RR Red/White
2000 SV650 Track bike
2008 Kawasaki ZX-14 - Sold
1982 Honda CB750K - Sold

User avatar
Stardog82
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 1907
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:17 am
Achievement count: 14
Location: Arlington

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by Stardog82 » Thu May 21, 2015 12:34 pm

I'm waiting to reserve judgement until the official report comes out, but if all the bullets dug out of the dead people came from cop guns...that's not okay
I'm a Stardog, baby.
The Fresh Prince of Ft. Worth

User avatar
milesmiles
Ride Leader
Ride Leader
Posts: 13622
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:40 pm
Riding Style: Advanced Track Rider
Achievement count: 27
Location: Denton

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by milesmiles » Thu May 21, 2015 12:59 pm

Same here, i just don't know what went on to really say.

Side question: What if a guy draws a gun aggressive/fast are you going to let him out shoot you?
The world needs Miles
Sometimes you gotta draw the line, but that doesn't mean it can't be squiggly-miles
"it's not a stupid dirt bike, it's a supermoto!"-miles

User avatar
LonestarCBR
Posts: 7573
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:39 pm
Riding Style: Intermediate Track Rider
Achievement count: 32
Location: Stephenville, Texas

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by LonestarCBR » Thu May 21, 2015 1:08 pm

No, you don't...which is why so many thugs are getting blasted.

Just read the story about the guy who shoots and kills a lady cop in Omaha one day before she goes out on maternity leave. Luckily the other cops sent him to meet his maker immediately thereafter.
~ Terry
'12 Speed Triple 1050 ABS, '07 GSX-R750 (track)
Happiness isn't around the corner, it IS the corner.
Anybody can jump a motorcycle. The trouble begins when you try to land it. EK
Image

User avatar
DemonDuck
Honorary Club Member
Honorary Club Member
Posts: 7623
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:21 am
Riding Style: Intermediate Track Rider
Achievement count: 40
Location: Litchfield, Il

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by DemonDuck » Thu May 21, 2015 1:52 pm

I agree 82. I wont make a decision till all the facts are out.
~Jeremiah~ AKA DemonDuck
Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.

2012 BMW S1000RR Red/White
2000 SV650 Track bike
2008 Kawasaki ZX-14 - Sold
1982 Honda CB750K - Sold

Telomere
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 10014
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:35 pm
Achievement count: 22
Location: Fort Worth/ Watauga

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by Telomere » Thu May 21, 2015 2:06 pm

I don't believe it is illegal to have a CHL and carry at Twin Peaks unless 51% or more of their income comes from the service of alcoholic beverages consumed on premise. It is more of a restaurant that mainly offers food with alcohol as an option, as opposed to, a bar that mainly serves alcohol and some food to consume with your beverage. I have been to Twin Peaks and have never seen such a sign posted saying that I cannot legally carry my gun with me on premise (it is concealed of course).
Chance favors the prepared mind.

User avatar
nitzer
Posts: 1607
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:27 pm
Riding Style: Novice Track Rider
Achievement count: 8
Location: Austin

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by nitzer » Thu May 21, 2015 3:23 pm

Telo is right...did I just agree with a woman? :SideSplittingLaughter:

Anyway with a CHL unless the 51% sign is posted, it is OK to carry in an alcohol serving environment. Just because one Twin Peaks has the sign posted doesn't mean all Twin Peaks will have the sign posted. The sign is a site by site determination based on the whether or not 51% of the profits from that location are derived from alcohol sales. It's a stupid law anyway. MN allows a permit holder to carry in a bar or liquor store and they don't have wild west shootouts in every bar or liquor store. MN law really says as long as you can drink as long as your blood alcohol concentration (B.A.C) is less than .04 (which for me is like a half a beer). Just because I walk into a bar with a gun doesn't mean I'm going to get all liquored up and shoot people. Maybe I don't drink and that bar has the best burger in town? Why would I need to disarm just because others are drinking around me? Do the criminals carrying illegally disarm when they see the 51% sign?

From what I can tell, the 51% sign has no distinct location that it has to be placed either. I've walked up to a place, walked through the outer doors, walked into the inner doors, and then seen the sign. At that point I'm breaking the law to no fault of my own because the sign was not posted on the outer doors or windows of the establishment.
- Derek
2007 Kawasaki Ninja 250 (SOLD)
2003 Suzuki SV650S (SOLD)
2008 Honda VFR 800 Interceptor (Street)

Winning hearts and minds...two the heart, one to the mind.

Image

User avatar
LonestarCBR
Posts: 7573
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:39 pm
Riding Style: Intermediate Track Rider
Achievement count: 32
Location: Stephenville, Texas

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by LonestarCBR » Thu May 21, 2015 4:09 pm

nitzer wrote:At that point I'm breaking the law to no fault of my own because the sign was not posted on the outer doors or windows of the establishment.
Scofflaw! :)) :SideSplittingLaughter:
~ Terry
'12 Speed Triple 1050 ABS, '07 GSX-R750 (track)
Happiness isn't around the corner, it IS the corner.
Anybody can jump a motorcycle. The trouble begins when you try to land it. EK
Image

User avatar
JTChiTown
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:19 pm
Riding Style: Novice Track Rider
Achievement count: 7
Location: Lewisville

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by JTChiTown » Thu May 21, 2015 4:51 pm

Yeah.... I'm not a fan of the Police state but I have a hard time believing all 9 were killed by the police only. If that is the case, I'd really want to see some of the dash cams to see what could have occurred to ever possibly explain that. And if they did without true solid justification of such force, fry em all.

Problem is, it's just so hard to fully trust in our government and law enforcement agencies to ever be sure the truth came out.
Jeff

"Drive fast, attract Cops; Drive faster, attract Sponsors"
Image

User avatar
Polokid69
Club Member
Club Member
Posts: 3170
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:58 am
Achievement count: 23
Location: Fort worth

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by Polokid69 » Thu May 21, 2015 4:54 pm

I say forget these guys ride bikes, most of these people, Bandidos, Cosacks, etc, are criminals for the most part which in my opinion makes them dangerous . If I'm a cop and I feel threatened or believe innocent customers are at risk, I would shoot first and ask questions later. Let's take this gun deal out of this debate, some had knifes, chains, brass knuckles . I agree with Rick, if I were a customer and they showed up I would get the fuck out.
Current Bike:
KTM RC390

Previous Bikes:
2007 Kawasaki ZZR600
2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R
2002 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
2000 Kawasaki Ninja EX250
1983 Kawasaki GPZ550
1980 Yamaha RD400
1978 Yamaha DT 125
1978 Yamaha YZ 125
1975 Yamaha DT 100

User avatar
DemonDuck
Honorary Club Member
Honorary Club Member
Posts: 7623
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:21 am
Riding Style: Intermediate Track Rider
Achievement count: 40
Location: Litchfield, Il

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by DemonDuck » Thu May 21, 2015 9:36 pm

I assumed that Twin Peaks would be 51% or more. No big deal either way. One day we might know what really happened.
~Jeremiah~ AKA DemonDuck
Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.

2012 BMW S1000RR Red/White
2000 SV650 Track bike
2008 Kawasaki ZX-14 - Sold
1982 Honda CB750K - Sold

User avatar
dufremle
Club Staff/Treasurer
Club Staff/Treasurer
Posts: 12567
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:57 am
Riding Style: Novice Track Rider
Achievement count: 0
Location: NW Fort Worth
Contact:

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by dufremle » Thu May 21, 2015 9:53 pm

I doubt it. They are more of a restaurant than a bar. Even Redneck Heaven doesn't have 51% signs.
Jim

2024 Subaru Crosstrek
2017 Toyota 4Runner

User avatar
Stardog
Posts: 2825
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:30 pm
Riding Style: Licensed Racer - Novice
Achievement count: 21
Location: Watauga

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by Stardog » Fri May 22, 2015 3:57 am

Polokid69 wrote:I say forget these guys ride bikes, most of these people, Bandidos, Cosacks, etc, are criminals for the most part which in my opinion makes them dangerous . If I'm a cop and I feel threatened or believe innocent customers are at risk, I would shoot first and ask questions later. Let's take this gun deal out of this debate, some had knifes, chains, brass knuckles . I agree with Rick, if I were a customer and they showed up I would get the fuck out.

I disagree with the idea that most bikers are criminals but I also don't think that all sport bike riders do stand up wheelies down 820 so call me crazy. There are some bad apples. I don't like the "shoot first ask questions later" idea. Kind of like someone earlier saying (joking I hope, though murder is not a joking matter) that the "time at the range is paying dividends", I just place a higher value on human life I guess and it saddens me deeply to see that some of us do not. Bikers might make bad fashion choices and look scary but that doesn't mean that we can or should shoot 30 of them just to be on the safe side.
DR650
Have cool, will travel

User avatar
DemonDuck
Honorary Club Member
Honorary Club Member
Posts: 7623
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:21 am
Riding Style: Intermediate Track Rider
Achievement count: 40
Location: Litchfield, Il

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by DemonDuck » Fri May 22, 2015 7:27 am

While I am with ya Stardog on they didn't deserve to die if they did nothing I also don't know all the facts right now. Until all the facts come out I cant say the police where wrong or that they are even the ones that did the shooting. Its like this.

I once had an inmate that decided she didn't want to be transferred and started going kinda crazy in the middle of the night when we came to get her to go on the bus. Long story short I had to handcuff her and she fought and I dragged her out. One way to control someone combative while cuffed behind the back is to bend them over. I did have her bent over by putting my arm under the her wrist and running my arm up her back to her shoulder. It does pull her hands away from her body some but only as much as she makes it happen and the end result is she has a hard time kicking or spitting on people. Needless to say she got on the bus and it all could have been much easier on her but whatever. The reason I tell you all this is that the next day the inmates in the housing unit that seen it all told the whole compound of inmates had the rumor going around that I broke her arm. Of course this was far from true there was no injuries at all.
~Jeremiah~ AKA DemonDuck
Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.

2012 BMW S1000RR Red/White
2000 SV650 Track bike
2008 Kawasaki ZX-14 - Sold
1982 Honda CB750K - Sold

User avatar
dufremle
Club Staff/Treasurer
Club Staff/Treasurer
Posts: 12567
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:57 am
Riding Style: Novice Track Rider
Achievement count: 0
Location: NW Fort Worth
Contact:

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by dufremle » Fri May 22, 2015 8:43 am

Here's the way I see it. The cops are going to say one thing. The bikers are going to say another. The media is going to tell whatever story gets them the most viewers. None of us were there to see what exactly happened. Just because a news outlet or blog or someone on YouTube claims something doesn't make it true. Claiming the cops 'murdered' 9 outlaw bikers is a bit ridiculous. Let the truth come out before making assumptions.
Jim

2024 Subaru Crosstrek
2017 Toyota 4Runner

User avatar
LonestarCBR
Posts: 7573
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:39 pm
Riding Style: Intermediate Track Rider
Achievement count: 32
Location: Stephenville, Texas

Re: TwinPeaks-Waco

Post by LonestarCBR » Fri May 22, 2015 8:54 am

Stardog84 wrote:
Polokid69 wrote:I say forget these guys ride bikes, most of these people, Bandidos, Cosacks, etc, are criminals for the most part which in my opinion makes them dangerous . If I'm a cop and I feel threatened or believe innocent customers are at risk, I would shoot first and ask questions later. Let's take this gun deal out of this debate, some had knifes, chains, brass knuckles . I agree with Rick, if I were a customer and they showed up I would get the fuck out.

I disagree with the idea that most bikers are criminals but I also don't think that all sport bike riders do stand up wheelies down 820 so call me crazy. There are some bad apples. I don't like the "shoot first ask questions later" idea. Kind of like someone earlier saying (joking I hope, though murder is not a joking matter) that the "time at the range is paying dividends", I just place a higher value on human life I guess and it saddens me deeply to see that some of us do not. Bikers might make bad fashion choices and look scary but that doesn't mean that we can or should shoot 30 of them just to be on the safe side.
I don't recall anyone stating all bikers are criminals (I could be wrong). But I think you're going to have a hard time making a case that many of these guys weren't. My understanding was they were meeting to come to agreement on who's controlling whatever crime was going on in a particular area. And they sure came armed for a confrontation. But then again, that's the lifestyle of many involved live...through intimidation and force. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I value human life as much as anyone here, I just don't sympathize with criminals when they end up in a bad spot.
~ Terry
'12 Speed Triple 1050 ABS, '07 GSX-R750 (track)
Happiness isn't around the corner, it IS the corner.
Anybody can jump a motorcycle. The trouble begins when you try to land it. EK
Image