Why cant we have candidates that we can vote for?

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Why cant we have candidates that we can vote for?

Post by DemonDuck » Tue May 24, 2016 1:41 pm

We are almost positive it will be Clinton vs Trump in the election. This sickens me to be honest. I detest Clinton and will not vote for her. Im not fond of Trump and cant say I want him as president. This leaves me with a huge problem. I either vote for Trump because I don't want Clinton or I vote 3rd party or whatever and hope enough people do the same that the system will change and maybe even enough people will go with that 3rd party person that both Trump and Clinton are kept out of office. This has to be the worst presidential election to vote in. Ok going to go cry in the corner now. :))
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Re: Why cant we have candidates that we can vote for?

Post by JTChiTown » Tue May 24, 2016 2:26 pm

Being a voter in Illinois, it may not matter so you won't have to feel bad about going 3rd party...
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Re: Why cant we have candidates that we can vote for?

Post by Polokid69 » Tue May 24, 2016 3:48 pm

I believe if Trump gets elected, most leaders in the free world will turn their back on the US. We as a country will take a large step backwards which may take years or decades to repair the damage.
I'm just shocked that this is the best the GOP could come up with. I know voters are angry at a lot of things but Trump will not solve any of them. A third party winning is just a pipe dream.Just my two cents.
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Re: Why cant we have candidates that we can vote for?

Post by dufremle » Tue May 24, 2016 4:37 pm

I hope Trump does get elected. He is one of the few people that isn't a lifetime politician and doesn't need to kiss ass once he gets into office. He is already rich and powerful and doesn't need the established politicians to get him elected. Therefore he can put people in place who he thinks can do the job, not people who he would owe. Now whether or not he will get any cooperation from Congress will the issue.

If Clinton gets elected say goodbye to the country. She will finish the job of destroying everything that Obama started. He already put at least 2 people on the Supreme Court who think the constitution is outdated and needs to be tossed.
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Re: Why cant we have candidates that we can vote for?

Post by Polokid69 » Tue May 24, 2016 6:13 pm

ok,not sure what you are talking about Jim as far Obama destroying anything.
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Re: Why cant we have candidates that we can vote for?

Post by JTChiTown » Tue May 24, 2016 8:02 pm

One at a time. Let's completely ignore the complete financial disaster that followed the Real Estate Crash for a second, and focus only on the meme.
Oil imports. #1, see above for gasoline prices. And where are those numbers coming from? Who did we buy it from?
Unemployment. Is the U2 #, the sole and complete picture of unemployment? What about the speed at which recovery is made?
Gasoline. How many years of Obama was it cheaper than under Bush? Who was President when we were paying $4? What singular actions has Obama taken to drive this?
Uninsured.....isn't Obamacare legally required....?
Teen pregnancy. When did it peak? How long has it been falling?
Iran. Assume for a moment those are only peaceful, cuz that's the deal right? Wouldn't you want more, if that's all they are for?
GDP growth? What full year did the US grow at 3.7% of GDP? And is that a solitary measure of economic success?
DJIA. I've seen this one. The President has a knob in his office that controls this, right?
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Re: Why cant we have candidates that we can vote for?

Post by dufremle » Tue May 24, 2016 8:30 pm

Anyone can pick and choose numbers to make their point. You have to look at the while picture, not just single data points.
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Re: Why cant we have candidates that we can vote for?

Post by fixxervi6 » Tue May 24, 2016 8:41 pm

Polokid69 wrote:I believe if Trump gets elected, most leaders in the free world will turn their back on the US. We as a country will take a large step backwards which may take years or decades to repair the damage.
I'm just shocked that this is the best the GOP could come up with. I know voters are angry at a lot of things but Trump will not solve any of them. A third party winning is just a pipe dream.Just my two cents.
Large step backwards, care to back up that statement with any evidence?

I don't know if you have been paying attention but the country has been going backwards since trickle down economics and free trade.
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Re: Why cant we have candidates that we can vote for?

Post by WickerMan » Tue May 24, 2016 9:59 pm

I'm for Bernie. I'm not not for all of his liberal policies, but I'd rather see it spent here than in Iraq or some other foreign country.

Trump is a crazy character, but he wants to pull our troops from S Korea and the Middle East and let those people figure out their own issues, Ron Paul anyone?

Oil at $150 a barrel at the end of W's terms was a thank you to the Saudis. The Bushes and the Saudis go way way back.

Yep you guessed it the Democrats and the Republicans are different parties only at election time so a 3rd party doesn't rise. Then it's business as usual: more money for the top 2%, big military, big oil, big pharmaceutical, big business, money hidden offshore, rich evading taxes, less people in the middle class, more people in the lower class. Honestly it doesn't matter who wins, not much is going to change for the average person.

I hate to say it but I trust Trump more than Hillary. After the last 36 years how much worse could he be than what we've had?
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Re: Why cant we have candidates that we can vote for?

Post by fixxervi6 » Tue May 24, 2016 10:23 pm

for me based on the characters that are running

1 - Bernie (no I don't agree with a lot of his stuff but I'm not running)
2 - Trump
3 - Hillary - I hope the U.S. goes into full blown civil war if she is elected
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Re: Why cant we have candidates that we can vote for?

Post by JeffStrom » Wed May 25, 2016 6:04 am

Polokid69 wrote:ok,not sure what you are talking about Jim as far Obama destroying anything.
Stats are interesting but don't paint the whole picture.

During that same period the house was controlled by Republicans while during the final Bush years it was controlled by Democrats.

The DJIA has continued the same trend it has for the last several decades. 8-10 years of growth followed by a correction. Note that it has recently started another correction, is that the President's fault?

The change in the financial picture is entirely due to the financial recovery after the housing/mortgage/banking crash. E.g. the deficit during the Bush years was overall much lower than it is today. It jumped as a result of the financial crash, and has been falling due to the financial recovery. However most economists will tell you that it is unsustainable at its current level. So if you can Blame Bush for the crash, then I suppose you can blame him for the deficit and other things, otherwise not really. But that is a whole discussion by itself. Should we also blame Clinton for the dot com bubble that burst starting in 2000 before Bush was elected?

As for the insurance, sure, more people may be insured but my insurance got more expensive and has a bigger deductible. It is getting worse at a faster rate than it was before, and now I'm being taxed on it as well.

As for unemployment, if you include the labor force dropout rate it actually went from 11.2% to 9.6% after peaking at 11.3% in late 2013.

In the end, I think the sitting President gets both more credit and more blame than they deserve. The makeup of Congress, overall financial cycles, stuff happening in other markets, are factors that the president can't really control. Up to this point, I have not been taking sides. I am just pointing out that those numbers are points of data and don't fully describe the situation and give no indication of how they came to be.

Now I'll take sides. I hope Bernie Sanders gets elected. I hope we have a congress filled with Democrats. I hope this because my financial situation will not let me retire yet. That is unless I can get free healthcare and just a moderate amount of financial help from the government.
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Re: Why cant we have candidates that we can vote for?

Post by LonestarCBR » Wed May 25, 2016 6:23 am

Obviously I'm not expert, but then most of us aren't. That's what makes American great...we can have an opinion, voice it, vote on it, then complain about it for the next four year.

For me, Trump is if nothing else, a breath of fresh air...I agree with Jim on this. And as we know, Jim is correct on statistics...do with them as suits your cause. And if nothing else, in my personal opinion, no President has done more to divide this country than Obama...and weaken us globally.

Argue all you want for third party, but until they come up with a viable candidate the electorate can and will get behind, then it dilutes the vote and hurts the process. I know we've discussed this some, it's just my opinion. IF, when it gets down to the nut-cuttin', you would never vote for Hillary, and if left no other option would vote for Trump (or vice-versa), but instead decide to vote 3rd Party, I just feel like you're basically voting for Hillary in my example.

Another 4-8 years of the Liberal agenda just means less and less accountability for way too many people. I'm conservative obviously, and I appreciate the conservative view of people being accountable instead of having a nanny-state. This is one of the major points that has made America so great for so many years. Pull yourselves up by the boot straps, don't expect to have it handed to you, don't expect a trophy or raise for mediocrity, and so on.

If you want to change the general stinky direction, get rid of PACs, set term limits for congress. Then once a congressman or senator gets elected, they won't spend all of their time worrying about maintaining the cash cow for the rest of their life and can then have a different focus.

And maybe we limit the number of lawyers who are members of congress at one time also. :)
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Re: Why cant we have candidates that we can vote for?

Post by DemonDuck » Wed May 25, 2016 7:09 am

All very good points. Im not going to speak about Obama because he is about out of office and its a moot point.... Kinda like talking about Bush.

The last person I will vote for is Clinton and im not sure how she has the support she has. We have a long history of her in politics and in that history she has lied consistently.... at least we do know for sure there is one thing that she stands for and that is to serve her own best interest. I honestly think she has a mental problem and pathological lying points to that. She might even believe the lies she tells. In any case even not looking back far I can not vote for a person with her recent record of misdeeds. Add to that the fact that she has been very clear that she would like to ban guns kinda like Australia. If she is elected she will likely put 4 or 5 judges in place and that with the last 2 could make that change. Which if that happened then we would be looking at a civil war .... something else I never want to see.

I also agree that voting 3rd party is about the same as voting for Clinton and I can not stomach that idea. I know the chance of my vote in Illinois wont make a whole lot of difference but from what I have seen so far it seems there are a whole lot of Trump supporters here. I will likely vote for Trump to try and be sure Clinton don't get in office but I wont be happy when I do it. Ill look like Dufremle when casting my vote.
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Re: Why cant we have candidates that we can vote for?

Post by LonestarCBR » Wed May 25, 2016 8:07 am

DemonDuck wrote:If she is elected she will likely put 4 or 5 judges in place and that with the last 2 could make that change. Which if that happened then we would be looking at a civil war .... something else I never want to see.
Yes, I didn't even hit on the Supreme Court appointee issue...that is likely the single biggest issue with this current election, all things considered.
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