Crosses

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Crosses

Post by DarcShadow » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:20 am

Can anyone explain to me why crosses are so popular? The cross was a meathod of excution, yet people display them as decoration and think they look so spiritual, all the while forgetting what they really are. Catholics are the only ones I konw of that get it and display the crucified Jesus on the cross reminding people of the horror of the cross and that it was used for.

I often wonder, if Jesus had been hanged or beheaded, would we have gallows or guillotines hanging all over the place like we do crosses? Just one of those random thoughts that hits me occasionally.
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Crosses

Post by milesmiles » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:50 am

A LOT of people have them for decoration, they can be made it look pretty cool, considering all the different designs. For those people, not all... I'm sure it's just for decoration. I even have one in my house. Even though I'm a believer I have it there for decoration more so.

Then there are people who have them as a reminder that Jesus died for our sins. It was horrible what happened on the cross, but without him dying we wouldn't have Christianity as we do today. We don't worship the cross though, just happens to be a simple symbol that we can reflect to that means much more to is.

Now let's say he died by hanging...doesn't really change anything, but I would doubt the symbol would have carried over like it has, simply for the fact that making a cross out of anything is easy.
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Re: Crosses

Post by DarcShadow » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:08 am

That's exactly my point, people hang a method of excution for decoration. Had he not been crucified crosses would not have any religous meaning and I don't believe you'd see them. In fact I'd suspect the Star of David would be more common.
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Crosses

Post by milesmiles » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:21 am

Yes, I do believe you are correct.
Just curious.. Does the cross fit the golden ratio? I don't know much about that stuff
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Re: Crosses

Post by milesmiles » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:27 am

Looked on the webs and didn't see anything
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Re: Crosses

Post by DemonDuck » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:37 am

Yes the cross that is displayed as a simple display is meaningless. The ones displayed for religion is a symbol for ones religion. Not much more to it other than what Miles already said. I would say that most people that display a cross are at least a little religious and display it as such but I could be wrong.
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Re: Crosses

Post by DarcShadow » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:46 am

DemonDuck wrote:Yes the cross that is displayed as a simple display is meaningless.
Yes,and that's my point, if Jesus had not been excuted by the cross, I doubt crosses would be common like they are and wonder would people hang gallows or guillotines for decoration.

Another interesting note, the crosses in the windows/doors of old castles, churches, forts, etc. were not just for decorations. They were used to aim crossbows and riffles out of in the case an attack because they limited access but gave the person on the inside a wide field of view.
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Re: Crosses

Post by fixxervi6 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:10 am

I believe crosses existed as a symbol before the crucifixion
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Re: Crosses

Post by DarcShadow » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:25 am

Hadn't considered that, and yes according to wiki you are correct. Although the "typical" cross you think of today was not the standard till after the crucifixion. So now I wonder, if that hadn't happened, would + or x type cross be more prevelant than the t type cross? And would it still be called a cross since that word comes from crucifixion.
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Re: Crosses

Post by fixxervi6 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:59 am

I haven't read the article but I think the Ank (spelling?) pre dates the modern cross, then there was the circle cross thing (forget it's name) then the crusifixion cross. I'd be more interesting in the "why did the adoption change". Maybe when the modern bible gets released (old testament, new testament, modern testament) we'll see a cool new hip cross design come out and it will be adopted.
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Re: Crosses

Post by Rhino » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:18 am

fixxervi6 wrote:I haven't read the article but I think the Ank (spelling?) pre dates the modern cross, then there was the circle cross thing (forget it's name) then the crusifixion cross. I'd be more interesting in the "why did the adoption change". Maybe when the modern bible gets released (old testament, new testament, modern testament) we'll see a cool new hip cross design come out and it will be adopted.
Probably the adoption change happened for the same reason that Jesus just happens to have been born and resurrected on Pagan holidays. It's convenient to blend myths. Why not have Jesus born on the winter solstice and resurrected on the vernal equinox?

Remember that Christianity was born in the Roman empire, which was already a massive melting pot of beliefs. Check out the map of the Roman Empire in 117AD. That's not long after Paul was busy writing half the New Testament. It stretches all the way from Britannia (Celtic symbols and Pagan beliefs) to Egypt (bunch of Resurrection myths there, and just happens to have a god Horus born on the Winter Solstice).

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Re: Crosses

Post by Telomere » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:29 am

A lot of people just like the way they look and a few think that if they have more crosses, then that signifies how religious they are (I have met people like this). Crucifixes, crosses, palm branches etc are all idols. Idolatry is the third commandment, so regardless of whether they are just decorations or a reminder, for all those super religious people out there, they are breaking the third commandment.
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Re: Crosses

Post by DarcShadow » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:30 am

Yeah, pretty much all Catholic holidays were scheduled to take over and push out other religions holidays. Christianity/Catholics, pretty much wrote the book on bullying.
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Re: Crosses

Post by DarcShadow » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:32 am

No, they are symbols, and you're only breaking the commandment if you worship them, or anything/one other than God.
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Re: Crosses

Post by Telomere » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:33 am

Rhino wrote:
fixxervi6 wrote:I haven't read the article but I think the Ank (spelling?) pre dates the modern cross, then there was the circle cross thing (forget it's name) then the crusifixion cross. I'd be more interesting in the "why did the adoption change". Maybe when the modern bible gets released (old testament, new testament, modern testament) we'll see a cool new hip cross design come out and it will be adopted.
Probably the adoption change happened for the same reason that Jesus just happens to have been born and resurrected on Pagan holidays. It's convenient to blend myths. Why not have Jesus born on the winter solstice and resurrected on the vernal equinox?

Remember that Christianity was born in the Roman empire, which was already a massive melting pot of beliefs. Check out the map of the Roman Empire in 117AD. That's not long after Paul was busy writing half the New Testament. It stretches all the way from Britannia (Celtic symbols and Pagan beliefs) to Egypt (bunch of Resurrection myths there, and just happens to have a god Horus born on the Winter Solstice).
Christianity "borrowed" the majority of "beliefs" (I don't think that is the correct term I am looking for here), from other religions, of which, the majority were pagan traditions or beliefs. Pagan-beliefs and traditions were incorporated into Christianity.

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Re: Crosses

Post by Telomere » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:34 am

DarcShadow wrote:No, they are symbols, and you're only breaking the commandment if you worship them, or anything/one other than God.
There are religions that do not allow any symbol within the home because it is considered an idol whether it is worshipped or not.
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Re: Crosses

Post by Rhino » Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:16 am

Er, you're kind of maybe breaking it, depending on how you look at it.
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
I'd argue that Christians don't worship and serve crosses. They worship and serve the God of Abraham. The cross is just something to look at. Besides, it's really just drawing arbitrary lines to call that the third commandment.
I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
Basically it's one big statement saying "I'm your god, you won't have other gods or anything else ahead of me, and you'll show me respect...or else."

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Re: Crosses

Post by DemonDuck » Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:25 am

Fixxer your so crazy.

Maybe the different religious beliefs are mixed so much because all of them are one God ... they just don't know it.
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Re: Crosses

Post by milesmiles » Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:41 am

Telomere wrote:A lot of people just like the way they look and a few think that if they have more crosses, then that signifies how religious they are (I have met people like this). Crucifixes, crosses, palm branches etc are all idols. Idolatry is the third commandment, so regardless of whether they are just decorations or a reminder, for all those super religious people out there, they are breaking the third commandment.
The last statement isn't true at all. We don't worship the cross, we worship God. I don't know of anyone who prays to the cross for help or whatever. Having it up is just helps remember for some.
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Re: Crosses

Post by fixxervi6 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:45 am

DemonDuck wrote:Fixxer your so crazy.

Maybe the different religious beliefs are mixed so much because all of them are one God ... they just don't know it.
Nah, what's really really crazy is the fact I have a draft of the modern testament in my head, I just need to write it down.
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Re: Crosses

Post by DemonDuck » Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:14 pm

Yea that is kinda crazy... but you should write it anyway. Maybe you inspired by god.
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Re: Crosses

Post by Rhino » Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:17 pm

fixxervi6 wrote:
DemonDuck wrote:Fixxer your so crazy.

Maybe the different religious beliefs are mixed so much because all of them are one God ... they just don't know it.
Nah, what's really really crazy is the fact I have a draft of the modern testament in my head, I just need to write it down.
You know Joseph Smith already beat you to it, right? That's what the Book of Mormon is.

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Re: Crosses

Post by fixxervi6 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:01 pm

Rhino wrote:
fixxervi6 wrote:
DemonDuck wrote:Fixxer your so crazy.

Maybe the different religious beliefs are mixed so much because all of them are one God ... they just don't know it.
Nah, what's really really crazy is the fact I have a draft of the modern testament in my head, I just need to write it down.
You know Joseph Smith already beat you to it, right? That's what the Book of Mormon is.
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Re: Crosses

Post by Firewa11 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:19 pm

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Re: Crosses

Post by LonestarCBR » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:42 pm

Telomere wrote:A lot of people just like the way they look and a few think that if they have more crosses, then that signifies how religious they are (I have met people like this). Crucifixes, crosses, palm branches etc are all idols. Idolatry is the third commandment, so regardless of whether they are just decorations or a reminder, for all those super religious people out there, they are breaking the third commandment.
Only if you are worshipping it.

For many people who appreciate the sacrifice that Jesus made (for all of us), it simply serves as a reminder, maybe comfort for some, just a recognition of paying the ultimate price. It doesn't make you more religious, it doesn't buy you anything with God, kind of like displaying the Shark on your bike...a way to recognize something that has some level of meaning to an individual.

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