Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

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Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by LonestarCBR » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:57 am

SACRAMENTO Calif. (Reuters) - California's system for imposing and carrying out the death penalty is so long and drawn-out that it amounts to cruel and unusual punishment and thus is unconstitutional, a federal judge ruled on Wednesday.


Ruling in the case of Ernest Dewayne Jones, who was condemned to death in 1995 and has yet to be executed, Judge Cormac J. Carney of the U.S. Central District of California said that to take "nearly a generation" to decide on Jones' appeals was unconstitutional.

As part of the ruling, Carney vacated the death penalty sentence in Jones' case.

"The dysfunctional administration of California's death penalty system has resulted, and will continue to result, in an inordinate and unpredictable period of delay," Carney wrote in his opinion, filed on Wednesday.

"Allowing this system to continue to threaten Mr. Jones with the slight possibility of death, almost a generation after he was first sentenced, violates the Eighth Amendment's prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment."
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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by Rhino » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:13 am

That sounds like really good judgment to me.

If you're going to sentence a man to die, he should die in a timely fashion.

Imagine if I sat on your couch, pointed a gun at you, and said "I'm going to kill you". Then I just stood there pointing the gun at you all day and night. Is that more or less cruel than just shooting you?

The judge is basically saying that if the court system in CA is so screwed up that somebody can be on death row for 20 years not knowing when they're going to die, that's a cruel thing to put someone through.

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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by LonestarCBR » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:17 am

No argument on getting on with business, but also, he has no business overriding a jury verdict. And it takes decades everywhere.

And when you're sentenced to death, you know you're going to die sooner or later, one way or the other, so that argument holds no water whatsoever.

It's okay if you call it like it is...a liberal California jackwagon.
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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by Rhino » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:23 am

I think you misunderstand how the justice system works.

Juries don't decide sentencing, they decide guilt. Judges decide sentencing. The judge didn't say the guy wasn't guilty of what he did. He just adjusted the sentence for that guy. It's not like the dude is out running free, he's just no longer on death row.

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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by LonestarCBR » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:43 am

Rhino wrote:I think you misunderstand how the justice system works.

Juries don't decide sentencing, they decide guilt. Judges decide sentencing. The judge didn't say the guy wasn't guilty of what he did. He just adjusted the sentence for that guy. It's not like the dude is out running free, he's just no longer on death row.
Some juries do decide sentencing, but regardless, that's really neither here nor there. A guy, 20 years later, decides "hmmm, you've sat in this block of cells long enough, so I'm going to move you over here, and in doing so, you do not have to face the punishment you really deserved".

And more importantly, calling sitting on death row awaiting execution "cruel and unusual punishment" is an absolute joke, a slap in the face to the victims and their families, and to the justice system in general.

I don't think his victims received a commuted sentence. To think that sitting in jail is somehow the same thing is very misguided to me. Sorry, I've got a real problem with that entire train of thought.
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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by Rhino » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:00 am

But the issue here wasn't whether the guy was on death row, it's how *long* he was on death row.

It says right in the judge's official opinion that a death sentence in CA is really a life in prison sentence with a slight chance of being put to death. He found that being left in limbo like that violates your 8th Amendment rights.

I'm sorry you have a problem with that train of thought, but I'm honestly glad that a federal judge is looking into that sort of thing. He's basically slapping CA and saying "if you're going to kill people, hurry the fuck up and do it."

I understand your desire to call out liberals for being Mexican Jew Lizards*, but the fact is that regardless of your personal feelings or political leanings, the Constitution and its amendments apply to all of us equally. If you're ok with a judge ignoring the 8th Amendment, would you be ok with a judge ignoring the 2nd? Or the 1st?

It's a sad state of affairs when Conservatives are pissed about the Constitution being upheld in federal court.










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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by WillK675 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:02 pm

I'm 50/50 on this one ... I agree with the judge on the fact of hurry up and get on with it. But not on it being cruel and unusual punishment. The person on death Row row, still has a right to appeal their case, and as we all know that can take time. So what is the time frame to allow for that; 1 year, 5, 10, however long the appeals take? So if someone continues to appeal their case, and delay their death sentence and it takes, lets say, 5 years; now all the sudden it's cruel and unusual punishment that they have been on death row awaiting their appeals? To me.. No! at that point they are delaying their own inevitable fate (pending the appeal doesn't find new evidence overturning the conviction).
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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by LonestarCBR » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:04 pm

Rhino wrote:But the issue here wasn't whether the guy was on death row, it's how *long* he was on death row.

It says right in the judge's official opinion that a death sentence in CA is really a life in prison sentence with a slight chance of being put to death. He found that being left in limbo like that violates your 8th Amendment rights.

I'm sorry you have a problem with that train of thought, but I'm honestly glad that a federal judge is looking into that sort of thing. He's basically slapping CA and saying "if you're going to kill people, hurry the fuck up and do it."

I understand your desire to call out liberals for being Mexican Jew Lizards*, but the fact is that regardless of your personal feelings or political leanings, the Constitution and its amendments apply to all of us equally. If you're ok with a judge ignoring the 8th Amendment, would you be ok with a judge ignoring the 2nd? Or the 1st?

It's a sad state of affairs when Conservatives are pissed about the Constitution being upheld in federal court.










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There is zero violation of his constitutional rights occurring because his death sentence is taking so long. Zero. Nada. None. Zilch. Saying so doesn't make it so.

And I fully support the constitution, for the record. Therefore I support the judges right to state his opinion. I do not support his decision to commute the sentence of a convicted murdered based on a lame-ass excuse / misguided logic.

But thanks for trying to educate me.
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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by Rhino » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:16 pm

LonestarCBR wrote:There is zero violation of his constitutional rights occurring because his death sentence is taking so long. Zero. Nada. None. Zilch. Saying so doesn't make it so.
Um...if you're a federal appellate judge, saying so ABSOLUTELY makes it so.

That's how the federal appeals court works, up to the Supreme Court. They're the final say in what's constitutional and what isn't. That's the entire point of that branch of government in the checks and balances system.

I'm sorry you don't agree with this decision, apparently because you want people dead, but that's the way the government is designed to work.

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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by LonestarCBR » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:38 pm

Judges make all kinds of stupid ass decisions all the time...just like all of the other branches of government. This instance is glaring example of that. Doesn't make it right. It just means they have the power to get away with it.

If you've got a good reason to commute his sentence, so be it. This wasn't one...it's an asinine excuse.

The fact is, there is no way this guys was suffering cruel and unusual punishment, unless every inmate in the CA system is. If anything, less so than in many states, since as you point out CA isn't going to execute him anyway. To the judge: leave it the f*ck alone, so you don't further damage the feelings of the victims family. Maybe he'll at least get a face full of them if nothing else. Either way, the murderer gets to live out his days with 3 hots and a cot...that's the real tragedy.

I don't want all people dead, just those who have it coming. I'm sorry if that offends yours or anyone else's delicate sensibilities. :D

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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by LonestarCBR » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:42 pm

And as you can see, a jury can be consumed with a bad case of the dumb-ass also:

NEW YORK (AP) — A Brooklyn jury has awarded more than $500,000 to a man who sued the city for a broken ankle he suffered during an arrest for shoplifting.

The jury awarded Kevin Jarman $510,000 on Wednesday for the injury.

The 50-year-old Jarman had filed the suit after pleading guilty to shoplifting at a Queens Pathmark in 2011.
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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by WillK675 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:13 pm

LonestarCBR wrote:And as you can see, a jury can be consumed with a bad case of the dumb-ass also:

NEW YORK (AP) — A Brooklyn jury has awarded more than $500,000 to a man who sued the city for a broken ankle he suffered during an arrest for shoplifting.

The jury awarded Kevin Jarman $510,000 on Wednesday for the injury.

The 50-year-old Jarman had filed the suit after pleading guilty to shoplifting at a Queens Pathmark in 2011.

Thank God, we have laws in Texas the prevent this kind of thing.
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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by LonestarCBR » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:26 pm

WillK675 wrote:
LonestarCBR wrote:And as you can see, a jury can be consumed with a bad case of the dumb-ass also:

NEW YORK (AP) — A Brooklyn jury has awarded more than $500,000 to a man who sued the city for a broken ankle he suffered during an arrest for shoplifting.

The jury awarded Kevin Jarman $510,000 on Wednesday for the injury.

The 50-year-old Jarman had filed the suit after pleading guilty to shoplifting at a Queens Pathmark in 2011.

Thank God, we have laws in Texas the prevent this kind of thing.
Yeah, you'd have to give serious consideration to a shoplifting rap and busted ankle if you could cash in like that. I think I could spend the entire wad on bikes, of course I'd have to get a CanAm Spyder or side car rig to ride until my ankle healed.
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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by Rhino » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:59 pm

LonestarCBR wrote:The fact is, there is no way this guys was suffering cruel and unusual punishment, unless every inmate in the CA system is. If anything, less so than in many states, since as you point out CA isn't going to execute him anyway. To the judge: leave it the f*ck alone, so you don't further damage the feelings of the victims family. Maybe he'll at least get a face full of them if nothing else. Either way, the murderer gets to live out his days with 3 hots and a cot...that's the real tragedy.
You clearly didn't read much past the headline.

The point the judge made is that EVERY INMATE IN THE CA DEATH ROW SYSTEM *IS* SUFFERING CRUEL & UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT.

Most of them get to live out their days on death row with 3 hots and a cot, because the CA appeals system is busted. The judge basically said that CA needs to either fix its system so people are put to death in a timely manner, or stop handing out death sentences. What they're doing right now violates the 8th.

And I don't give a flying fuck about the victim's family's feelings (or anybody else's feelings for that matter) when it comes to my constitutional rights.

I bet you'd be crying a completely different tune if a federal judge had upheld the 2nd instead of the 8th.

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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by LonestarCBR » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:17 pm

Man, you went WAY off the reservation with this one. I'll leave you to your thoughts. Enjoy.
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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by Rhino » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:03 pm

Yeah, I'm off the reservation for pointing out facts you missed and disagreeing with your "fuck that liberal jackwagon" position.

If you can't take the heat, the kitchen door is ---->

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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by LonestarCBR » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:55 pm

Well, to be honest, the heat doesn't bother me at all on this subject. I MAY be trying to be somewhat respectful however. Maybe the only way to really do that is agree?

This whole conversation started due to the implication that constitutional rights are being trampled. Sorry, I've got to call BS on that. Then, where you really went off the reservation for me is trying to relate how this affects other parts of the constitution, or imply that I must not support it. But hey, it's your opinion, luckily I don't have to sleep with it. You've failed to give any reasonable explanation as to how his constitution right is actually being violated, other than quoting someone else's opinion, which doesn't prove anything. I get that the system is flawed, and it should be remedied. Is this the only way this judge sees to do that...to get things off high center, maybe so. But I do not get that constitutional rights are being infringed upon because a guy is allowed to escape his date with the gurney for 15 years longer that he should have. It happens way to often, and shouldn't.

Like I said, I fully support the constitution. Other than driving too fast, I'm a follow-the-rules kinda guy. I'm not sure what you meant when you said "uphold the 2nd"...that would not bother me at all. I support it and the 8th. The whole thing, front to back.

Respectfully submitted for your critique. I'm going to exit <---, wait, sorry, ----->
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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by sckego » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:06 pm

LonestarCBR wrote:You've failed to give any reasonable explanation as to how his constitution right is actually being violated, other than quoting someone else's opinion, which doesn't prove anything.
The point you're missing is that the ultimate authority when it comes to interpretation of the US Constitution are the federal judges. Their opinions are what decides what the constitution means. If a judge says it's a violation of his constitutional rights... then it is.
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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by fixxervi6 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:48 pm

I personally feel putting someone on death row for years on end is a violation of human rights. I saw a video on similar cases.

It's not just sitting in a cell waiting for "that day"

Several inmates begin the process and it get's delayed, so they wake up one day and go ok Friday is the day and they get all the way to Friday, start the prep work, which means sometimes being strapped in ready to go and it gets delayed, back to your cell, time and time again.

Some cases ended up with innocent people on death row asking for death to stop that torture, they just wanted it to end.

I don't see putting someone to death as "punishment", a greater punishment would be to lock them up in a little box all alone and throw away the key, in my eyes the point of putting someone to death is to eliminate a threat to society without having to feed them, that doesn't mean torturing them.

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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by Rhino » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:23 am

sckego wrote:
LonestarCBR wrote:You've failed to give any reasonable explanation as to how his constitution right is actually being violated, other than quoting someone else's opinion, which doesn't prove anything.
The point you're missing is that the ultimate authority when it comes to interpretation of the US Constitution are the federal judges. Their opinions are what decides what the constitution means. If a judge says it's a violation of his constitutional rights... then it is.
Exactly.

Your opinion doesn't matter. Neither does mine. What matters is how a federal judge sees it. If someone appeals the federal judge's decision and the Supreme Court decides to hear it, then 5 Supreme Court Justices being in agreement is the final say on the matter. The buck stops with them when it comes to interpreting the Constitution as it is written. If people *still* don't like the interpretation, then Congress can amend the Constitution however they want as long as they get a 2/3 majority in the House and Senate, and 38 of 50 states ratify the amendment.

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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by Stardog82 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:20 am

There outta be an electric chair in the back of the courthouse. Do not pass go, do not have a last meal.
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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by sckego » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:32 am

Rhino wrote: If people *still* don't like the interpretation, then Congress can amend the Constitution however they want as long as they get a 2/3 majority in the House and Senate, and 38 of 50 states ratify the amendment.
Or, just make sure your guy is the one in the White House, because he gets to make all the judicial appointments, and will of course appoint judges who share his views on how the constitution should be interpreted. For example, this Cormac Carney guy was appointed to his bench in 2003, by, lets see... Dubya. So GWB and those who voted him into office are ultimately responsible for putting Carney on the bench, and thus this ruling.

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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by Rhino » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:03 am

Fuckin' Dubya. Liberal fuckin' jackwagon, that guy.

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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by LonestarCBR » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:34 am

Rhino wrote:Fuckin' Dubya. Liberal fuckin' jackwagon, that guy.
Yep, bad decision, nice to see we finally agree. :-)
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Re: Wow, how do you become a judge with judgment like this?

Post by LonestarCBR » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:35 am

Stardog82 wrote:There outta be an electric chair in the back of the courthouse. Do not pass go, do not have a last meal.
:icon_whs0be:
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