ISIS

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ISIS

Post by BeautifulDisaster » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:12 pm

Thoughts? Opinions?

Do you feel this group is a localized threat, or, that they are capable of reaching further and causing worldwide mayhem?

If you think it's not a problem, should it be something to get involved in so the chances of it being "our problem" later down the road are thwarted?

If you think it is a problem, what course of action would you like to see taken?
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Re: ISIS

Post by LonestarCBR » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:11 pm

Well, think "al-Qaeda"...started out about the same way generally speaking.

For me, if we could airlift Israel out of the muck...then make a glass factory out of the whole mess...problem solved. For those of you so inclined, you may now commence with the piling on (no kicking or biting please).
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Re: ISIS

Post by BeautifulDisaster » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:50 pm

I'm with you!
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Re: ISIS

Post by JTChiTown » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:33 pm

Shortly after 9/11, I had a professor who said "nuke em till they glow, then shoot em in the dark." I think that should apply to any and all enemies of ours.

The reality is that should any real group put any type of effort into causing America serious harm, they could do so in a multitude of ways.

I don't worry about it though, as there won't be much we will do until it's too late.
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Re: ISIS

Post by LonestarCBR » Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:46 am

JTChiTown wrote:Shortly after 9/11, I had a professor who said "nuke em till they glow, then shoot em in the dark." I think that should apply to any and all enemies of ours.

The reality is that should any real group put any type of effort into causing America serious harm, they could do so in a multitude of ways.

I don't worry about it though, as there won't be much we will do until it's too late.
Yeah, it was really amazing to see how this country came together in the wake of 9/11, and I miss that very much. It's like we were "one nation" again.

And that's a new quote for me...and I like it. :spank: :-| :ar15: :mad: These are for the bad guys...not you.
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Re: ISIS

Post by Firewa11 » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:42 am

I think the problem with not using nuclear weapons over the past 70 years is that people around the world have no concept of the true power we possess, and are not afraid of it. I say show them what real fear is and they will back the fuck down.
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Re: ISIS

Post by Rhino » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:04 am

Yeah, that'll go over well.

"Look, the US is nuking civilians. We should probably do something about them."

It'll be WWIII, us against everybody.

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Re: ISIS

Post by LonestarCBR » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:08 am

Don, STEP AWAY FROM THE RED BUTTON! :SideSplittingLaughter:
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Re: ISIS

Post by LonestarCBR » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:09 am

Rhino wrote:Yeah, that'll go over well.

"Look, the US is nuking civilians. We should probably do something about them."

It'll be WWIII, us against everybody.
Either that, or the rest of the world will throw a big party.
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Re: ISIS

Post by fixxervi6 » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:32 am

They have been killing each other over there for generations, internet, media, and small camera's are bringing it "more to light".

I say pull out and leave them be, the less of their oil we use and the less we interfere the better.

You can't fight terrorism with a bullet, every time you knock one down another one stands up behind him, and while turning the place to glass may be an interesting daydream, the reality is the U.S. would be in fact killing more innocent civilians than terrorists in that act. Remember, the majority of the people over there don't give a damn and want to be left a lone, it's the smaller groups that are radical and armed to the teeth that make all the noise and get all of the attention.
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Re: ISIS

Post by LonestarCBR » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:00 am

Make sure I'm in the Politics and Religion thread...check.

All good points. My honest issue, and one that may not be really popular with some on here, is Israel. I believe in the Bible. Israel's people are God's chosen people. They live in the Promised Land (God promised it, and gave it to them...their enemies were struck down in order to have it). You stand with them, or against them. I simply choose to stand with them, as has this country (governmentally speaking). Does anyone ever ask why both Israel and the US are so blessed? Or why the countries against Israel wallow in poverty, continual civil wars, and all of the other stuff that goes on? It's a battle they will never win.

That being said, it will never stop as long as Israel stays in the Promised Land...and they aren't leaving. And so as their enemies continue to screw with them, they will continue to smote their enemies. And so it goes.

Not sexy, I know. I am now leaving the pulpit. :-D
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Re: ISIS

Post by fixxervi6 » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:12 am

LonestarCBR wrote:Make sure I'm in the Politics and Religion thread...check.

All good points. My honest issue, and one that may not be really popular with some on here, is Israel. I believe in the Bible. Israel's people are God's chosen people. They live in the Promised Land (God promised it, and gave it to them...their enemies were struck down in order to have it). You stand with them, or against them. I simply choose to stand with them, as has this country (governmentally speaking). Does anyone ever ask why both Israel and the US are so blessed? Or why the countries against Israel wallow in poverty, continual civil wars, and all of the other stuff that goes on? It's a battle they will never win.

That being said, it will never stop as long as Israel stays in the Promised Land...and they aren't leaving. And so as their enemies continue to screw with them, they will continue to smote their enemies. And so it goes.

Not sexy, I know. I am now leaving the pulpit. :-D
Separation of church and state... if our government backs Israel because of the bible all of them in office need executed.

If they are truely gods people in the promised land I say wonderful! Pull out and let god take care of them, they don't need us.
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Re: ISIS

Post by Rhino » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:14 pm

If God gave Israel to the Jews, why so many Palestinians in Gaza?

Also if we're supposed to be on Israel's side because of the Bible, why so many Christians in America and so few Jews?

Finally, you do know that Muslims believe in the God of Abraham, right? It's all the same God, just different books and prophets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems awfully mean of your God to send his children against his other children...

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Re: ISIS

Post by dufremle » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:37 pm

Religion itself doesn't make sense. Especially when they all claim to practice acceptance of other religions, but in practice they don't.
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Re: ISIS

Post by fixxervi6 » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:45 pm

I'm all for religious freedom but the second it causes any influence on policy, domestic or foreign, that crosses the line imo.
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Re: ISIS

Post by BeautifulDisaster » Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:19 pm

I am for religious freedom too and I personally prefer no one else's stuff imposed on me. Take prayer out of school, that's fine, because there is a floodgate of what "prayer" is when you allow it. Just a simple example. It's all or nothing and considering the crap I've seen with my own eyes... I'll take nothing for no one. That's more freeing than being (enventually) subjugated to more...ritualistic...belief systems.

Israel is a strong power and a strong ally. I do believe we should keep getting their backs as they would get ours. I'd prefer to not have to rely on the natural resources of that particular mound of dirt but it is what it is. I think we pulled out of that craphole too soon and that Obama makes us look like a dog with a tail between its legs. We are a world power for a reason and we should keep it that way and keep it strong. If we have to play police of the world so be it. That is what it ultimately will take from that crap unfolding on our own soil. I don't want that here, and it's trying to get here. Think back to Japan and Germany... they seemed so harmless, only messing around on their soil... Until some of it got here. No thanks.

Mindless killing machines of hate. Nope. Not my God.
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Re: ISIS

Post by DemonDuck » Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:42 am

I have a few thoughts on this. First im not a big nuke em guy. I personally believe that the less horrid war gets the easier it is for our leaders to do it any time they want. I have been in the area we are talking about in a combat situation. I can tell you from first hand experience that I am all for taking any fight to the enemy. I NEVER WANT TO SEE THE FIGHT COME TO US. Even if you win the fight the rebuilding takes forever and the land and people will never be the same.

Should we do something about the whole deal? Yes I believe we should. I fear that if we do not than ISIS and these other terrorist groups will get together and cause alot of problems for us. The problem we usually have when we go to war with a group is politics. If you want ISIS to go away or any other group for that matter then you release the USMC and do not ask questions. Simply say remove this group from the earth and do it however you need to do it. Dont say get it done but only use 1/8 of your resources. Our politicians always tie one hand of our military behind their back before sending them to war and that is a huge problem. In the history of the Marines we have repeatedly done every job that every other force said was impossible and we love doing just that. Release the teufel hunden and let the world be reminded why they got that name in the first place.

As Isreal. We should always have their back. I can not think of any military force that is completely as bad arse as them. I had the pleasure of doing some operations with them and they are simply top notch. I can think of no other nation I would rather have at our side when the shit hits the fan.
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Re: ISIS

Post by BeautifulDisaster » Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:53 pm

:icon_whs0be:

And by the way-- THANK YOU, I had no idea you served. You, sir, are a rockstar.
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Re: ISIS

Post by LonestarCBR » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:13 am

Looks like ISIS made a nice land purchase in Syria this weekend.
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Re: ISIS

Post by LonestarCBR » Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:33 am

Rhino wrote:If God gave Israel to the Jews, why so many Palestinians in Gaza?

Also if we're supposed to be on Israel's side because of the Bible, why so many Christians in America and so few Jews?

Finally, you do know that Muslims believe in the God of Abraham, right? It's all the same God, just different books and prophets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems awfully mean of your God to send his children against his other children...
I'm not really sure what the first two questions have to do with much of anything, except that they (the Palestinians) take exception to Israel residing in Israel, as does a great deal of the Muslim population. The whole point earlier was that there is a reason Israel flourishes in the middle east cesspool. It's a shame they have to spend every waking minute defending themselves, but I believe when placed in that situation, God stands with them as He promised them He would.

American's are in American because, well, it's American and they are after all American's. Ditto for Israel. Why does anyone live outsides of their native country? The reasons abound.

God doesn't send us against each other...we as humans are perfectly capable of screwing up on our own and causing our own wars, death and destruction. Free will...God blesses us with that...we just screw it up a lot.

In my belief, the real "religion" is belief in Jesus Christ...that's it. Nothing else much matters beyond that.

According to the Holy Bible, he's OUR God, like it or not. IF the Holy Bible is truly the inspired Word of God, then we'll all get a lot more clarification on just about everything later (judgment day). Yes, that includes Muslims, and everyone else. In the meantime, it teaches us how to live...which really, can be summed up fairly easily: Love thy neighbor as thyself. It doesn't say "Love them unless they don't believe as you - then kill them". For many of the Muslims, that is their credo, and their "bible" even teaches such. The Holy Bible does not. Big difference, and while there have been some exceptions throughout history (Crusades), there is only one "religion" that is basically teaching genocide for those who don't believe as they do.

Mohammad isn't the first or the last to try to create his own religious sect, or alternate religion (however you see it)...and again, if the Holy Bible is correct...it will eventually ends the same for each of those who do. Mankind does not get the option to create their own gods...it's one of the Top 10 don'ts.

Hey, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. If those who deny God and Jesus are wrong, the stakes will change a little. We all get a choice...free will.

I'm not a Bible scholar, and we can waste hours throwing internet opinions and rhetoric around. But that's what's really nice about America, I get to have an opinion that differs from yours, and vice versa. I can only hope that my belief doesn't lead to exclusion with you...I can assure you that yours doesn't with me. I respect that you have an opinion. :-D

Also, and while it won't matter much, I find it much easier to believe in the concept of God and Jesus when I look at the world and consider all that it is, than the fact that it has somehow "evolved from the primal ooze" (or whatever the proper term might be).
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Re: ISIS

Post by LonestarCBR » Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:47 am

fixxervi6 wrote:I'm all for religious freedom but the second it causes any influence on policy, domestic or foreign, that crosses the line imo.
I could be wrong, and I've read it, but I cannot find in the Constitution where it says the politicians cannot be religious (whatever you take that to mean), and it doesn't say they cannot help form policy using religious beliefs. America was founded on such.

What is does say is that the government cannot dictate what religion we as individuals practice, nor create a "national religion" (football or baseball don't count). In reading Thomas Jefferson, I don't see that he said any differently either. That is how "separation of church and state" were defined in the early days.

The Constitution does not say the 10 Commandments can't be displayed in a Federal Courthouse, for example. Honestly, what better guidelines are there to conduct one's self by...they'll keep you out of a lot of life's troubles. And it doesn't say you can't pray in school. It was really a very simple concept we've managed to twist to satisfy a few.

It's the same as the anti-gun movement trying to argue that the right to keep and bear arms applies solely to a militia...that it excludes the common man. Just putting their twist on it to satisfy their agenda.
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Re: ISIS

Post by Rhino » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:11 am

LonestarCBR wrote:In my belief, the real "religion" is belief in Jesus Christ...that's it. Nothing else much matters beyond that.
I guess the Israelis are all going to hell then. Jews don't believe in Jesus.

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Re: ISIS

Post by LonestarCBR » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:01 am

You may well be correct my friend. That's what the Bible teaches. There are "Jews for Jesus" however, so there is hope. :-)
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Re: ISIS

Post by BeautifulDisaster » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:03 am

You have 3 major world faiths that started there. They all are fighting for control of the area. Biblical history or anthropological, history repeats itself. Whether in the guise of fighting for religious freedom, natural resources, terrorism, etc., it's destined to be a battlefield.

As for politicians sharing their personal beliefs and using that to influence how they do their jobs; any person who has a personal belief s/he holds dear and ascribes to his/her life will in one way or another affect decision making. It is what it is. That being said sometimes it's best not to go around advertising that because we are biased creatures, inclined to follow the direction of a person that we share a personal affinity with (religious, physical, ethnic, etc.). Bascially avoiding the sheeple syndrome.

As for the display of religious monuments on government property, here is my problem. It's part of religious history, I totally get it and understand that. I believe people should be free to believe what they want and express themselves without causing harm to others (visual offense doesn't count, sorry, it's more about protecting human life and bringing no harm to another). Now, apply that to our government, our Constitution... is that something you really want to open the floodgates on? Not me. I don't want a mish mash of faiths showing all their bling because all faiths will oppose each other and THEN think of the various denominations of all those already opposing faiths...Nothing but a huge bitch fest.

In addition, and this is a big one for me, I don't want Sharia here, I don't want it imposed on me and in some forms it already is. Already people in this country, who have gotten citzenship STILL claim ignorance to OUR laws saying they are used to their old ways and shouldn't be held accountable. And judges are accepting such BS arguments and allowing ignorance as a plausible defense and people are getting away with pure garbage. Look in the news. Several recent cases have had such judgements. In order to keep freedom we in a sense have to lose it, or tuck it away, if you will. I think that if more people thought about what is being pushed on them, rather than taken away from them, it would make more sense.

And as far people going to hell... not my place to say or attempt to speak on behalf of a power greater than myself. Playing god/goddess is not my thing. I don't really believe in hell anyway. But my beliefs don't fit in a box.
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Re: ISIS

Post by LonestarCBR » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:37 am

Fair enough, and well said.

Some of these things are for the masses to decide...my problem, we have a few making decisions for everyone on issues that our founding fathers saw differently because a minority chooses to decide one day they should be offended.

You can't make everyone happy all of the time...or some of the people some of the time...and sometimes no one at any time.

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