Cool. Thanks, and I am sure I will take you up on thatStriple wrote:Telomere -- let me know next time you're going to be on the track. If you want, I'd definitely be willing to work a session or two with you. Since I struggled with the same exact aspects, I might be able to show you some things that have helped put me on the right path. Just let me know, I can do it at just about any track day.
(as long as I can keep you with you...you are fast...even on a connie 
)
Striple wrote:Telomere -- let me know next time you're going to be on the track. If you want, I'd definitely be willing to work a session or two with you. Since I struggled with the same exact aspects, I might be able to show you some things that have helped put me on the right path. Just let me know, I can do it at just about any track day.
Let me know as well. I won't be showing you anything .... just following the both of you. I find I do my best when following Stripple.... I learn alot. Plus I can try and get good video for you to use.
Sure, anytime! Just make sure to wait for me at the end of the straights.DemonDuck wrote:
This just means that you are exactly where you need to be. You're probably faster than most of those other riders, but you're now looking for the tools to make safe passes to avoid getting bunched up. It takes time to develop a sense of when and where to pass, and I still find myself struggling with this from time to time. Even when you're confident that you can make the pass, you cannot always trust the rider ahead of you for holding his/her line, and you certainly want to avoid a potentially hairy situation. Keep on doing as many track days as you can, and you will develop the skills needed to learn to make those passes. Also, keep in mind that the 1.3-mile track at MSRC is not an easy one to make a clean pass on.Michael wrote:I think I regressed a little yesterday. The last trackday at ECR I was in the zone, graduated to level 2 and pumped up about doing the 1.3. Rode in lvl 1 since I had never done that course. I picked up the lines pretty quick and ended up sitting behind groups of 3-4+ riders. I do not know how I can safely pass when they're all a couple of feet apart in a big bunch.
You might even consider going to level 2 where riders are a bit more predictable which makes passing easier. Also, don't forget, once you're past the apex you're not in the turn anymore and can pass on what ever side you want. The big trick to to not follow someone into a turn. It's hard not too and I still do it more then I should but if you can give them just the right amount of space to where you don't have to change your pace and can catch them just past the apex you should be able to hold them off for the straight.Telomere wrote:It is easier said than done. This is going to take practice and I am sure that once I do it, I will be doing it all the time...it is just getting to the point to learn "when" and "how" to do it. I plan on staying on the 250 at the track until I get that technique down for the simple fact that once I learn how to do it on the smaller, more chattier bike, I shouldn't have a problem doing it on the 600. I don't want to learn how to pass on the outside on the 600 first. I would probably screw up and wind up in the flower patch on the side of the track, smelling them.Striple wrote:The key to riding a small bike -- especially a 250 -- is to maximize corner speed. Since you're basically riding around without an engine, you're going to exit a turn with a speed that is (at best) not too different from your entry speed. Learn to trail brake deep into a turn, and try not to overbrake. Remember, you don't really *need* to start braking at a certain point, you just need to be done with it before you reach your maximum lean angle. You can even get on the brakes earlier than usual, just apply less brake pressure. Then gradually trail off the brakes as you initiate the turn. You can use the same technique to outbrake bigger bikes, and put yourself to the inside of them, before they have a chance to initiate their turn-in (= not an inside pass).
Another excellent way to pass bigger bikes is to let them get ahead of you by a few yards, then set yourself up for a monster drive out of a turn, and place yourself smack onto their line in front of them. Unless you're on a big straight, most L1/L2 riders won't be able to pass you again until after the next turn.
Don't let your lack of horsepower frustrate you on the track (I know -- easier said than done, right?!). In fact, the longer you stick with the 250 on the track, the better it is for your development as a rider. Ask any expert racer, and they will tell you that you're doing exactly the right thing.
I'm trying to avoid being bummed and take from the day what I can, even if it's tiny. At a minimum if all else went wrong, you got line practice and your bike came back still shiny.Michael wrote:I think I regressed a little yesterday. The last trackday at ECR I was in the zone, graduated to level 2 and pumped up about doing the 1.3. Rode in lvl 1 since I had never done that course. I picked up the lines pretty quick and ended up sitting behind groups of 3-4+ riders. I do not know how I can safely pass when they're all a couple of feet apart in a big bunch. I would roll through the pit at least once a session then I would get caught behind again. I guess this made me lose focus and my body position was jacked up. The instructor basically told me I needed to slow down and he was right, but 75% today isn't what it was five trackdays ago. So last time out I ended up cruising about half pace and focusing on my body position but I just wasn't feeling it. I started losing concentration and was tired from waking up too early so I didn't do the last session. Maybe at this point I need some one on one instruction. I think I would have rode better in lvl 2 where I could have got into a groove. I guess everyone has a bad day but I don't know I'm kind of bummed.
I don't think I am ready for Level 2. I want to be able to pass those bikes in Level 1 before I move up. It is part of the challenge and learning. If I move to level 2, I will not have that opportunity. I will learn that trick once I see it and do it..then it should "click"...at least, I hope it does.DarcShadow wrote:You might even consider going to level 2 where riders are a bit more predictable which makes passing easier. Also, don't forget, once you're past the apex you're not in the turn anymore and can pass on what ever side you want. The big trick to to not follow someone into a turn. It's hard not too and I still do it more then I should but if you can give them just the right amount of space to where you don't have to change your pace and can catch them just past the apex you should be able to hold them off for the straight.
I probably could do that but I never thought about that. I may have to sit and ponder on that idea.DarcShadow wrote:You could also forget about passing for now, go to level 2, get more experence going faster, then drop back to level 1 to work on your passing, and probably be amazed at how easily you can do it.
It's called the "Fixxer Plan".Telomere wrote:I probably could do that but I never thought about that. I may have to sit and ponder on that idea.DarcShadow wrote:You could also forget about passing for now, go to level 2, get more experence going faster, then drop back to level 1 to work on your passing, and probably be amazed at how easily you can do it.
Correct, I still stand by that. I'm not a racer, while I do have fun passing sometimes, it's not my goal when I go to the track.Rhino wrote:Whether you can pass *now* is irrelevant. You said at the time that you moved to L2 it's because you were tired of getting stuck in traffic. When we gave you a hard time about just passing, you said you didn't want to learn to pass, you wanted to learn to go faster.
Just listen to yourself, and listen to Striple and Dave, you know you can carry so much more speed into/thru/and out of the corners. You are getting frustrated because the bigger bikes are slowing you down in the corners, they are getting in your way. My suggestion to you is find an open spot going into corners where there is no one around you. Maybe work on one corner or a couple of corners at a time. Roll thru them without using your brakes, start slow, increase speed progressively. Find out how much speed you are capable and comfortable carring into and thru a turn. Also progressively take a more outside line, increase it but not to the point where you'll run off or get into trouble (again comfort level). Weight your inside foot more, put so much weight on that inside peg that if it were to break you foot would go thru the pavement on the track. Keep your bike upright or as upright as you can. Your body position will help navigate you thru the turn. Remember the more upright the bike is the more throttle you can use. When you get good at it, you'll be able to pass them in th corners, look back to see the look on their face as they pass you on the straight and then you can pass them again on the next corner.Telomere wrote:I enjoyed yesterday too even though I was pissed off every session I went out because I do not know how to pass these stupid slow cornering mo-fo's!!!El Diabro wrote:Thanks Striple! Dude, you're a beast out there!!!
Thanks to everyone who showed up today to ride and those that came to watch. Even though I didn't look like it, it definitely felt good to be surrounded by friends. Talking shop, track and all out BS was fun! Dave, thanks for the camera, my lil boy keeps asking me 'was that you? was that you there?' as people are passing me
Just like every track day, today was another learning experience! I can't wait to work a few kinks out for next track season!!!I would have had A LOT more fun if I knew how to pass them (which made renting that lap timer completely useless). One of these days, I will learn to pass them and then maybe move up in levels.
Your first mistake is treating Ricochet as a turn. It's not a turn its a kink in the track, a slight curve. You don't have to use your brakes. When you come out of wagon wheel drift to the ouside of the track. Early apex and drift wide on the exit use the whole track, this will allow you to avoid the ripples made by cars on that part of the track. Taking this line will also help you pass those riders that treat ricochet as a turn and brake for it. You can pass on the ouside while they're braking and your on the throttle.fixxervi6 wrote:
that damn ricochet turn
Ricochet, I brake before that turn, I can't help it, even if I slow down I brake before that turn. The bike tips in there strange, it doesn't feel "snappy" it feels sluggish. It could have something to do with brakes AND the fact it goes down hill. Anyway as an experiment I did all of my braking EARLY on the straight, got back into the gas fully before tip in and road the gas on the entire way, if felt smoother and I was able to get a descent line a few times. Everyone keeps telling me don't' brake that's why your messing it up, that appears to be true. I just don't know how to brake that mental block at this time, but not being on the brakes at tip in on that turn makes a big difference, where as things like little bend and buzzards neck, if I'm not on the brakes for tip in, they don't feel right. I want to follow someone through that turn at speed and do a "trust me ride" to try to break that mental braking barrier. I think part of it is the bumps too, I've hit them a few times, and almost fell off the bike once so I have some hesitation.
fixxervi6 wrote:Right, cause I can't pass
Go to the 11 minute mark to see an example of using your straight speed to carry you through the turn on the outside when someone parks the bike.
Stardog84 wrote:HOW DO YOU PEOPLE KNOW THIS CRAP?!
if you know what I mean! Two things:Stardog84 wrote:HOW DO YOU PEOPLE KNOW THIS CRAP?!
