300cc Sportbikes

[Valentina]

Well I was looking on the forum for a discussion about 300cc sportbikes, I didnt find one so I am opening a discussion.

I know I know...prolly no one likes this topic...bruhaha...we all have 600 cc and 1000cc who cares about the small bikes?!
Well I do cos I am short unfortunately, when i started riding back in the days `07-08 i didnt have a choice if i wanted to buy a sportbike preferably Honda I could have choosen cbr125 or cbr600 I am talking about Europe mostly, I started riding there. So I started with the 125 and then a BIG jump to 600:)

And NOW?! What is happening?
Honda Kawasaki and Yamaha are coming out with these cute small bikes...
I looked at the seat height first and then the horsepower. Those are the 2 most important things for me.
Well I like the seat height but...hm the horse power seems a bit low....

Have any of you tried them?
Any honest opinions?
Feel free to tell anthing i wont get hurt:)

[Tooner]

I have talked with a few owners that really like their 300cc bikes. Being the semi chubby guy that I am I probably wont be looking to buy one but I still think they would be fun to ride full throttle!

[JeffStrom]

Sarena has a Ninja 300 and I have ridden it on club moderate rides and level 1 at Cresson on both tracks. I am right around 6' and 200 lbs. I am not anybody's idea of an expert rider.

Obviously most of the 300's are "sport" not "supersport" type bikes in that they have inexpensive brakes and suspensions and a less aggressive stock riding position. For my mass there is a lack of power in some scenarios; like passing on the backroads, driving out of higher speed corners, really anything where you want to get acceleration and you are already doing 60+. Setting up so you are up around 10K when you are going to need power helps some, but it does require planning and you don't get much room before the red line.

That said, where I am with track riding is still in the stages where I need to be more worried about line and body position so I'm not getting too impatient yet. I think the lower HP also helps me work on setting up shift patterns.

The KTM 390 (Duke or RC depending on your pref) is a nice compromise in that it is still pretty light and compact but has an additional 10ish HP. I don't know about the seat height though, I think it might be just a little higher.

[fixxervi6]

IMO small displacement bikes are good for the track, not so much for the street due to lack of straight line acceleration at speed - and I don't mean at 100 mph and I'm not talking about top speed.

The Honda 500 is shockingly under powered for a 500, I'd take the KTM 390 over the 500 but I've seen a ton of reliability issues with the 390, the kawi 500 was also very weak for a 500 (when you think of it as double the displacement of a 250). I had a 390 show up on a ride once and I was impressed with how well it did in terms of grunt. I haven't ridden a 300 but I imagine it to be extremely fun for track, for street the straight line acceleration issues would still be there. I'm of the opinion anything under a 650cc twin / 600cc inline is going to have straight line acceleration issues. It's not that big of a deal when merging onto a freeway doing say 45 mph due to traffic but trying to pass a car on a back road that's going 5mph under the speed limit can be a pain in the ass.

One factor to consider is brakes / suspension / slipper quality all are less on the smaller sport bikes so it's not just about the horsepower.

To give you some perspective I have a very low opinion of the I4 - 600 as well - its power profile for street riding makes it a complete pile of shit imo. On paper yea the peak numbers are more than enough to get stupid with but you gotta be hauling ass even in first gear to get the rpm up into the powerband. Below 12,000 rpm I feel like I should get off and push, and on stock gearing that's like 60mph, which is great if your hauling ass everywhere but if your not... it's a gutless machine.

[WickerMan]

I started on the 26hp 2012 CBR250R and it was a great machine; I did my first track day on it, on a partially wet track with no issues. With experience now, I don't consider it powerful enough for the highway, although mine spent most of its 7400 miles with me on one, near redline. My cycle is the CBR500R, 471cc and 50hp, and I consider it the minimum for safe operation. The new 300 class, minus the CBR300R, is so close in Power/weight ratio that it should serve the purpose. I've ridden the Ninja 300, R3 and RC390, with the R3 being my favorite. I would avoid the KTM as it is almost entirely manufactured in India and has a terrible reliability reputation; I'm one of the first to join the RC forum. My 500 is close to the 300's in seat height but sort of heavy at 420 lbs full. I go to every Yamaha demo day I can make, so I can ride the R3, for the small bike class it's the best IMO. The CBR500R is kind of an an anomaly, as its full size, full weight, and more torque and HP than the 300 class. There is a video where they compare Ninja, CBR 300 and 500, and RC390 on the street and track, done in Australia I think, it helped a lot when I was researching. I could make a case for having any of them, but I love the 500, I think it's the best do/have everything cycle there is. I will be on it April 2nd for its 4th track day, with only Q3s and the '16 OEM adjustable brake lever.

[milesmiles]

I'll take the ktm!

[Polokid69]

I'm with Miles, the RC390 is most race like but it would be a toss up between the R3 and Ninja 300, both excellent bikes. Another to consider is the new BMW G310R.

[nitzer]

People trying to sell used KTM 390s can't give them away...I've heard bad, bad things about the reliability and lack of dealer support.

[milesmiles]

Oh yea?

[fixxervi6]

People trying to sell used KTM 390s can't give them away...I've heard bad, bad things about the reliability and lack of dealer support.

I'm seeing all the same things, unless it was damn near free I wouldn't buy one. Now if they could fix their problems, I'd love to have one.

[milesmiles]

Well that sucks

[Valentina]

IMO small displacement bikes are good for the track, not so much for the street due to lack of straight line acceleration at speed - and I don't mean at 100 mph and I'm not talking about top speed.

The Honda 500 is shockingly under powered for a 500, I'd take the KTM 390 over the 500 but I've seen a ton of reliability issues with the 390, the kawi 500 was also very weak for a 500 (when you think of it as double the displacement of a 250). I had a 390 show up on a ride once and I was impressed with how well it did in terms of grunt. I haven't ridden a 300 but I imagine it to be extremely fun for track, for street the straight line acceleration issues would still be there. I'm of the opinion anything under a 650cc twin / 600cc inline is going to have straight line acceleration issues. It's not that big of a deal when merging onto a freeway doing say 45 mph due to traffic but trying to pass a car on a back road that's going 5mph under the speed limit can be a pain in the ass.

One factor to consider is brakes / suspension / slipper quality all are less on the smaller sport bikes so it's not just about the horsepower.

To give you some perspective I have a very low opinion of the I4 - 600 as well - its power profile for street riding makes it a complete pile of shit imo. On paper yea the peak numbers are more than enough to get stupid with but you gotta be hauling ass even in first gear to get the rpm up into the powerband. Below 12,000 rpm I feel like I should get off and push, and on stock gearing that's like 60mph, which is great if your hauling ass everywhere but if your not... it's a gutless machine.

Yeah I usually i usually ignore the brake/suspension / slipper quality... I should look into that but they are lower on smaller bikes...
I think we don't use all the power of 600 Bikes on the streets for sure neither the 1000.

[Valentina]

I started on the 26hp 2012 CBR250R and it was a great machine; I did my first track day on it, on a partially wet track with no issues. With experience now, I don't consider it powerful enough for the highway, although mine spent most of its 7400 miles with me on one, near redline. My cycle is the CBR500R, 471cc and 50hp, and I consider it the minimum for safe operation. The new 300 class, minus the CBR300R, is so close in Power/weight ratio that it should serve the purpose. I've ridden the Ninja 300, R3 and RC390, with the R3 being my favorite. I would avoid the KTM as it is almost entirely manufactured in India and has a terrible reliability reputation; I'm one of the first to join the RC forum. My 500 is close to the 300's in seat height but sort of heavy at 420 lbs full. I go to every Yamaha demo day I can make, so I can ride the R3, for the small bike class it's the best IMO. The CBR500R is kind of an an anomaly, as its full size, full weight, and more torque and HP than the 300 class. There is a video where they compare Ninja, CBR 300 and 500, and RC390 on the street and track, done in Australia I think, it helped a lot when I was researching. I could make a case for having any of them, but I love the 500, I think it's the best do/have everything cycle there is. I will be on it April 2nd for its 4th track day, with only Q3s and the '16 OEM adjustable brake lever.

R3 has the most power between Honda and a Kawasaki... I would like to test ride it too.
Yeah KTM... hm no thank you... I only trust Japanese bikes...

[Valentina]

I'm with Miles, the RC390 is most race like but it would be a toss up between the R3 and Ninja 300, both excellent bikes. Another to consider is the new BMW G310R.

Wow even the BMW is coming out of 300 S... looks like the Ducati Monster a little ,city bike... hm but I don't trust anything else than Japanese bikes.
I would test ride it though.

[Polokid69]

another for your consideration. http://scramblerducati.com/en/bike/sixt ... 1491177975

[Polokid69]

http://www.cycleworld.com/2017-suzuki-g ... re-finally

[JeffStrom]

another for your consideration. http://scramblerducati.com/en/bike/sixt ... 1491177975

I don't get the Sixty-2, is that something for countries with graduated licenses? It is just over 400lbs, has 40HP, and costs about $8K. OTOH, the Icon is about 7 lbs heavier, has 75HP, and costs about $8.9K. Saving 7 lbs and $900 does not seem worth the power hit.

[Valentina]

another for your consideration. http://scramblerducati.com/en/bike/sixt ... 1491177975

Haha no thanks... Just japanese bikes please...
Apart from the round lamp in the front its a pretty bike, prolly a lot of maintenance

[Valentina]

http://www.cycleworld.com/2017-suzuki-g ... re-finally

Not bad...just not on the US market...hm...

[stoney812]

You should also check out some of the non "supersport" larger sportbikes.

For example, the Yamaha FZ6R has the same 30.9" seat height as the Ninja 300.
https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sport/models/fz6r

If you don't mine a more naked sport bike, the SV650 also has the same 30.9 seat height and it's got the V-Twin if you are opposed to the inline 4.
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20L ... aspx#Specs

Or you can just go all crazy and get the Honda CTX700N and it's seat is lower than all the 300's at 28.3
http://powersports.honda.com/2016/ctx700n.aspx

just some ideas.

[Valentina]

Thanks Stoney, not bad I like the FZ6R even the older models are good...I am not sure about maintenance though...

[milesmiles]

Good info