How do you feel about Legalized Marijuana?

[fixxervi6]

Prohibition , look it up

[sckego]

OK I for one am trying to see how legalizing it will decrease the number of pot related crimes? For instance, Colorado put into law that it is legal to possess up to 1oz for recreational use per individual. IE that means anything more is criminal to possess and therefore that person can go to jail. The law also limits the number of pot plants in a home for "personal use". Any more than the limit and it's breaking the law and therefore you can go to jail. If you could buy pot from your neighbor for $5/joint (have no f'n clue how much pot costs nor do I give a shit), why would you buy it from a retail store for $7/joint and pay more because it's now taxed? And stores have overhead. Legalizing it will not magically empty our jails or save the tax payers money in any way shape or form. The minimal amount of revenue generated in taxes will still not cover the costs of prosecuting the ones possessing more than the legal limit. Why would I want to get it legally for more money when I can grow my own and sell it or a profit? Hell, if it becomes legal here I should grow some and sell it. It would be a pure profit enterprise for me since I wouldn't be smoking my product. JMHO.

LOLwut? You know what else is legal in Texas? Tomatoes. You should grow those and sell them for a profit, too! And cucumbers, and tobacco! Why would ANYONE pay the insane taxes on a pack of cigarettes when they can just grow their own tobacco plants in their backyard? Hell, I don't smoke cigarettes, I should totally grow some tobacco myself and sell it... pure profit enterprise, right?

Legalization means that companies can exist whose business is to grow and sell weed. They can do that in large quantities, take advantage of economies of scale, and do it way better and cheaper then Billy Bud in his basement grow room. If you want to grow your own, fine, but most people will just cruise down to the local dispensary and pick up a bag... just like most people hit up the grocery store for their tomatoes (and pay tax on them!) instead of relying on their backyard garden.

As for the "illegal to possess more than 1oz" bit... you know you can get arrested in Texas for transporting large quantities of alcohol as well, right?

[nitzer]

I think you missed the point a little. My point was, people think that legalizing it will all of a sudden magically make all the issues with pot go away. They won't go away. I'm a smoker and I do drink on occasion. Would I care if they outlawed them both...nope. I wouldn't. I will agree that both cause more harm than smoking pot, but pot only cause less issues because there is a lot smaller population of pot smokers than drinkers/smokers. The availability isn't there like cigs or alcohol. Just because pot becomes legal, doesn't mean companies or the US government can't still use it as a disqualifying factor for employment since it will still be illegal in the form of federal law. I love it when people tell me that pot does no harm to the body. Then why is it that heavy pot smokers have the "pot laugh". I'm sure you've heard it. Is it just part of the "pot culture" that you have to laugh like that or is it a biological change that occurs in the brains of pot smokers? No, not all do it. That's why I specified the "heavy" pot smokers. Smoke pot or don't smoke pot, that's a person's choice just like drinking or smoking. If they choose to, then they deal with the consequences without trying to blame others or "the system".

BTW, since you mentioned mass producing the stuff...what happens when a company mass produces something and another company wants to get in on the action? They start producing it too. So, seeing that company A now has the same product as company B, company A says we need to make our product better to outsell company B. Hey, why don't we find a way to up the THC levels so people get a better high off our product? Then they will buy it from us instead of company B. We know as a society that this will happen because it already happened with the cigarette companies. The were developing better tobacco with higher nicotine content to hook more smokers until the federal government stepped in and put the brakes on. The Netherlands is actually dealing with this problem right now. As of 2011 they have started to re-evaluate their laws regarding the "recreational" use of pot due to the higher levels of THC being bio-engineered into pot. It's actually illegal to cultivate pot in the Netherlands so where does all the pot come from that is sold in the "coffee shops"?

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/tourists-face- ... ml#qGNi8f3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regardless, the pot you are buying off the street these days is already being mass produced mostly in foreign countries. With pot still illegal in the eyes of the feds, the war on pot will still rage on our boarders and still suck up federal dollars. Bottom line is, it's very naive of someone to think that all our problems with it will simply go away by legalizing it. It just creates a slightly different set of problems to deal with. If the end result is a wash monetarily, then why do it?

Last note, I do have a garden and grow my own tomatoes, cucumbers, potatoes, beans, carrots, etc. We even have a lemon, peach, apple, pecan, and apricot trees in the back yard... I could sell them if I wanted to. That doesn't break any laws unless I don't report the income to uncle Sam. Why don't people grow their own veggies and raise their own meat or cultivate their own tobacco? They don't because they don't have to. If they had to they would, but food is a basic survival necessity. Pot is not. Making it more available, will increase it's use. Once again, refer to the article above that talks about the pot tourism in the Netherlands and the increased levels of crime associated with it.

[DarcShadow]

You don't pay taxes on tomatoes.

[WickerMan]

Cigarette use in this country is down even though the addictive nature of the chemicals in them have been compared to heroin addiction.

Yeah, you might want to back up a step there.

If you want your ideas to be taken seriously, don't compare cigarettes and heroin.

I'm not saying heroin and cigarettes are the same. I am saying the powerful addiction to heroin and difficulty quitting is said to be similar to the powerful addiction to nicotine and quitting that. In other words it's as hard to kick the cigarette habit as it is the heroine habit.

[WickerMan]

If weed was legalized the use would go up. No doubt in my mind about that. However I don't really have a problem with that. It would cause an increase in pay for jobs that do not allow use of Marijuana so that would be another good part.

Would it? I don't see how that could be done legally if weed is legal on a national level. It'd be like saying you can't work for a company if you ever drink alcholol.

That is true and I'm sure it would cause problems. They would have to come up with a test that was easy to use that could tell if you where under the influence and how much..... something like a bretholizer or something. I don't know.... it would be a process for sure.

They do have a test. it's metabolites of the drug in Ng per ML of blood, something like 5 to 7 Ng per ML. Interesting though, one of the presentations during the conference involved a California study. 3 smokers, one daily, one weekly, and one twice a year, were compared by the police on a driving circuit. Then they consumed .75 gram bowls every 10-15 minutes and were retested. The daily smoker at 10 times the limit for DUI, was still passable. I don't remember the exact figure for the other 2.
Imagine someone with a .80 BAL, they would be dead.

[WickerMan]

Ask a teen, any teen, if it's easier to get marijuana or cigarettes or alcohol.

I know its hard to believe but I was a teen once. I knew plenty of potheads.... I knew more smokers.... and even more that would drink. I never went to a party that didn't have lots of alcohol and cigarettes. Although not all of them had weed or if they did it was a whole lot less of it.

As for if use would go up..... well I would have been much more likely to smoke weed if it was legal. Again I'm not to worried about weed.

Not hard to believe, I was a teen also. I graduated from AHS in 89. Alcohol was the hardest thing to get. You had to have someone buy it for you. Which usually involved a sympathetic parent (how many would still do that nowadays), or hanging out next to the 7-11 looking for an older drunk guy (not many of those around the 7-11 anymore). Cigarettes had no age limit and were legal for all till like 96 or 97, but everyone knew where a $2 joint could be had, and they were sold all over school. But again it only appealed to about 12% of people.

Its use might increase some. I know one person who would switch to weed from cigarettes.

[WickerMan]

http://tribuneherald.net/2013/06/03/tex ... -on-floor/

Fake story, there is no such legislator or town. They is a semi-famous book that has that town in the title.

But there was a City Prosecutor in Louisiana or Florida from a few years ago, that dropped a joint during court. I remember the cop quoted said they all had a good laugh, or everyone laughed.

[WickerMan]

OK I for one am trying to see how legalizing it will decrease the number of pot related crimes? For instance, Colorado put into law that it is legal to possess up to 1oz for recreational use per individual. IE that means anything more is criminal to possess and therefore that person can go to jail. The law also limits the number of pot plants in a home for "personal use". Any more than the limit and it's breaking the law and therefore you can go to jail. If you could buy pot from your neighbor for $5/joint (have no f'n clue how much pot costs nor do I give a shit), why would you buy it from a retail store for $7/joint and pay more because it's now taxed? And stores have overhead. Legalizing it will not magically empty our jails or save the tax payers money in any way shape or form. The minimal amount of revenue generated in taxes will still not cover the costs of prosecuting the ones possessing more than the legal limit. Why would I want to get it legally for more money when I can grow my own and sell it or a profit? Hell, if it becomes legal here I should grow some and sell it. It would be a pure profit enterprise for me since I wouldn't be smoking my product. JMHO.

Actually legalization does lead to lower prices. A friend from California said an 8 gram quarter ounce of top-shelf stuff is $90, verses $150-200 for 7 grams here.

We are already paying the "costs," but not getting anything back. Right now Texas prosecutes all offenders, and incarcerates many. Don't do that and it's money for something else. 25 million people and 12-15% smoke and no taxes can come from it? No jobs created? Licenses fees? Business taxes on the new businesses? Colorado expects a minimalist $65 million in its first year, and Texas has twice the population.
During one presentation a Probation officer said they had 70 people per caseload, and will still have plenty to do. One court in Tarrant plead 95% of cases so plenty of work still for them. Cops solve 5% of vehicle theft in Tarrant and 12% of home burglary, so plenty of work for them still. Also maybe lower insurance for cars and houses if the Police could concentrate on the other stuff.

Like the tomato guy said I can't grow a tomato very good.

One thing I don't get you brought up. Who says you have too many cases of beer, or too many bottles of Vodka. It's legal for this amount but have a smidge over and it's the CJ system for you. Think of the taxes on scales alone.

[DarcShadow]

That is true and I'm sure it would cause problems. They would have to come up with a test that was easy to use that could tell if you where under the influence and how much..... something like a bretholizer or something. I don't know.... it would be a process for sure.

They do have a test. it's metabolites of the drug in Ng per ML of blood, something like 5 to 7 Ng per ML. Interesting though, one of the presentations during the conference involved a California study. 3 smokers, one daily, one weekly, and one twice a year, were compared by the police on a driving circuit. Then they consumed .75 gram bowls every 10-15 minutes and were retested. The daily smoker at 10 times the limit for DUI, was still passable. I don't remember the exact figure for the other 2.
Imagine someone with a .80 BAL, they would be dead.

By need a test, I think he's refereing to something they could do in the field. I heard a news story about someone developing something but nothing has been released yet, currently it only a blood or urin test which requries lab time and can not be done on the side of the road.

That being said, techincally, any level of any drug is illegal to have in your system while driving. The only difference is the type of ticket you are issues. If you're over the limit it's a DWI, if your under the limit it's a DUI. DWI's are easier to procecute, DUI's are typically dropped.

[Rhino]

Cigarette use in this country is down even though the addictive nature of the chemicals in them have been compared to heroin addiction.

Yeah, you might want to back up a step there.

If you want your ideas to be taken seriously, don't compare cigarettes and heroin.

I'm not saying heroin and cigarettes are the same. I am saying the powerful addiction to heroin and difficulty quitting is said to be similar to the powerful addiction to nicotine and quitting that. In other words it's as hard to kick the cigarette habit as it is the heroine habit.

I call 100% bullshit on that.

The withdrawal syndrome from heroin (the so-called "cold turkey") may begin within 6 to 24 hours of discontinuation of the drug; however, this time frame can fluctuate with the degree of tolerance as well as the amount of the last consumed dose. Symptoms may include:[52] sweating, malaise, anxiety, depression, akathisia, priapism, extra sensitivity of the genitals in females, general feeling of heaviness, excessive yawning or sneezing, tears, rhinorrhea, sleep difficulties (insomnia), cold sweats, chills, severe muscle and bone aches, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, cramps, watery eyes,[53] fever and cramp-like pains and involuntary spasms in the limbs (thought to be an origin of the term "kicking the habit"[54]).

Cigarettes you get cravings to smoke and turn cranky.

[fixxervi6]

Yea comparing Heroin to Cig's is quite a bit of a stretch, but lobby groups will do all they can to push their agenda even bending the truth in their favor, shocking I know.

[Rhino]

Exactly.

Cigarettes are as hard to quit as heroin, thanks Obama!

[WickerMan]

I'm not saying heroin and cigarettes are the same. I am saying the powerful addiction to heroin and difficulty quitting is said to be similar to the powerful addiction to nicotine and quitting that. In other words it's as hard to kick the cigarette habit as it is the heroine habit.

I call 100% bullshit on that.

The withdrawal syndrome from heroin (the so-called "cold turkey") may begin within 6 to 24 hours of discontinuation of the drug; however, this time frame can fluctuate with the degree of tolerance as well as the amount of the last consumed dose. Symptoms may include:[52] sweating, malaise, anxiety, depression, akathisia, priapism, extra sensitivity of the genitals in females, general feeling of heaviness, excessive yawning or sneezing, tears, rhinorrhea, sleep difficulties (insomnia), cold sweats, chills, severe muscle and bone aches, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, cramps, watery eyes,[53] fever and cramp-like pains and involuntary spasms in the limbs (thought to be an origin of the term "kicking the habit"[54]).

Cigarettes you get cravings to smoke and turn cranky.

What the hell do I know, I've never been addicted to either. And we are not talking about withdrawal symptoms.
However the idea is from a quote by C. Everett Koop the Surgeon general of the US, from his 1982 study Report on Smoking and Health. But he's dead so you can't call 100% bullshit on him. You can read the report by googling the above information.

[WickerMan]

That is true and I'm sure it would cause problems. They would have to come up with a test that was easy to use that could tell if you where under the influence and how much..... something like a bretholizer or something. I don't know.... it would be a process for sure.

They do have a test. it's metabolites of the drug in Ng per ML of blood, something like 5 to 7 Ng per ML. Interesting though, one of the presentations during the conference involved a California study. 3 smokers, one daily, one weekly, and one twice a year, were compared by the police on a driving circuit. Then they consumed .75 gram bowls every 10-15 minutes and were retested. The daily smoker at 10 times the limit for DUI, was still passable. I don't remember the exact figure for the other 2.
Imagine someone with a .80 BAL, they would be dead.

By need a test, I think he's refereing to something they could do in the field. I heard a news story about someone developing something but nothing has been released yet, currently it only a blood or urin test which requries lab time and can not be done on the side of the road.

That being said, techincally, any level of any drug is illegal to have in your system while driving. The only difference is the type of ticket you are issues. If you're over the limit it's a DWI, if your under the limit it's a DUI. DWI's are easier to procecute, DUI's are typically dropped.

They are developing a breathalyzer for drugs in Sweden I think it was.

[DemonDuck]

It would have to be something that employers could use to test employees on the spot. We already have the ability to test clothes and stuff to detect if they have been around drugs but not sure how easy it would be for everyone to have one of them. With drinking it is easier to tell if someone is under the influence when they show for work ... then you use a breathalyzer. Not sure it would be so easy with weed.

[Rhino]

Not sure it would be so easy with weed.

It's easier.

Randomly disable the vending machines, then log who leaves work for snacks. A trend will emerge.

[DemonDuck]

ROFL I like that!

[Stardog]

Legalized marijuana would cause an increase in use by people like me who prefer the effects over alcohol and realize that is is much less harmful. I went to a friend's house last night and we sat around drinking beer to the wee hours. I sure wish we could have just smoked a bowl instead. I am a little bit hung over. That doesn't happen with pot. I have not smoked pot in some time though I was a regular smoker some years ago. I would like to resume occasional marijuana use without someone telling me that I deserve to be dragged from my home for enjoying a joint on my couch while watching Star Wars.

The real reason marijuana is illegal is and has always been money.
http://www.republicreport.org/2012/mari ... y-illegal/

[fixxervi6]

But your not allowed to make decisions for yourself.