MSR Nov 3rd & 4th Role Call

[DarcShadow]

ugggg! I really want to run the 1.3 in level 3! Damn cruisers.

[DarcShadow]

I can't believe he's getting enough cruisers to run them twice in the same month. It's not even close to being sold out for this weekend. Bring back level 3 damn it!

[El Diabro]

So what time is everyone heading down tomorrow? I think I usually try to leave around 6am to be there by 7 at the latest. If anyone is leaving around that time or passing through this area, I'll ride down with!

[Striple]

We're gonna come strollin' in around 7:30am, as usual.

[Striple]

The weather forecast for Saturday says low 60s in the morning, then gradually warming up to around 81 by 3pm. 20% chance of rain from 3pm on wards.

Sunday's forecast isn't as optimistic. Low 50s with showers until about 8am, then 30% chance of rain again from 11am-1pm, with temperatures barely climbing into the low 70s.

[Striple]

F' it -- I'm in for Sunday too. See you girls in the morning.

[Rhino]

I haven't done squat for prepping or loading or anything, but screw it, I'm tired.

I did find my GoPro and threw it on the charger.

I'll load the rest of the stuff later, and if bike prep takes forever in the morning so be it. It's not like I need to ride the L1 round robin.

[El Diabro]

Now the hard part of trying to actually get some sleep

[Stardog]

Thanks for making me feel so welcome. I had a great time and learned a lot.

[Striple]

Thanks to everyone who worked, rode or showed support today! We had an excellent turnout and perfect track weather! I got to ride two different bikes in all three levels -- what a blast!

El Diabro - You were the only one in the group whom I really got to spend some quality time on the track with. Your body position in particular has massively improved since the last time I saw you on the track. Hope to ride with you some more next season!

[El Diabro]

Thanks Striple! Dude, you're a beast out there!!!

Thanks to everyone who showed up today to ride and those that came to watch. Even though I didn't look like it, it definitely felt good to be surrounded by friends. Talking shop, track and all out BS was fun! Dave, thanks for the camera, my lil boy keeps asking me 'was that you? was that you there?' as people are passing me

Just like every track day, today was another learning experience! I can't wait to work a few kinks out for next track season!!!

[Telomere]

Thanks Striple! Dude, you're a beast out there!!!

Thanks to everyone who showed up today to ride and those that came to watch. Even though I didn't look like it, it definitely felt good to be surrounded by friends. Talking shop, track and all out BS was fun! Dave, thanks for the camera, my lil boy keeps asking me 'was that you? was that you there?' as people are passing me

Just like every track day, today was another learning experience! I can't wait to work a few kinks out for next track season!!!

I enjoyed yesterday too even though I was pissed off every session I went out because I do not know how to pass these stupid slow cornering mo-fo's!!! I would have had A LOT more fun if I knew how to pass them (which made renting that lap timer completely useless). One of these days, I will learn to pass them and then maybe move up in levels.

[Stardog]

I am glad that you were in lvl 1. Sorry.

[Telomere]

Sorry? You weren't one of those bikes that kept flying by me and then slamming on their brakes. You are good. You rode behind me the entire time so I have no idea how you were doing but I am sure it was fine, since your legs hurt

[Striple]

I enjoyed yesterday too even though I was pissed off every session I went out because I do not know how to pass these stupid slow cornering mo-fo's!!! I would have had A LOT more fun if I knew how to pass them (which made renting that lap timer completely useless). One of these days, I will learn to pass them and then maybe move up in levels.

Don't worry about all that -- just keep on focusing on the basics. Speed is going to come over time, and when it does, you're going to have good technique, because you learned on a small bike. I cannot tell you how many times I have cursed the SV for denying me the little bit of extra power that it would have taken to pass some guy on a much larger bike. But -- it forces you to focus on the basics and to make up for the lack in power with corner speed and drive. If people park in the turns, then it is an opportunity for you to practice passing on the outside. Trust me, I know where you're coming from, and it is going to be worth it in the end!

[Telomere]

That is just it. I don't know how to pass on the outside. I tried several times yesterday and I just can't do it because everytime I tried, the other bike ended up getting in my line. I tried and I plan on doing another few trackdays on the 250 in level 1 just so I can learn how to pass on the outside of a corner on my way in the corner. The only 2 corners that I was out braking other bikes in were rattlesnake and richochet. Those bigger bikes would pass me on the straight to rattlesnake then slam on their brakes and I would manage to get my tire in front of them while braking in the corner. I enjoyed doing that. The same with richochet. I tried passing on the outside of little bend numerous times, completely unsuccessful and the same with big bend. It just seemed that the line I took to try to pass them in the outside of the corner ended up being the line they were taking on the way out of the corner. I just don't get it yet and I guess I need someone to show me.

I did use the throttle this time in the corner and I was told that I have good corner speed (just to be held up by the bigger bikes). Passing on the outside is what I need to work on. If we were allowed to pass on the inside, I could have passed numerous times but I won't do that (unless I am L3 or racing). I guess next trackday, I will get with an instructor to have them show me how to pass on the outside.

[Rhino]

I enjoyed yesterday too even though I was pissed off every session I went out because I do not know how to pass these stupid slow cornering mo-fo's!!! I would have had A LOT more fun if I knew how to pass them (which made renting that lap timer completely useless). One of these days, I will learn to pass them and then maybe move up in levels.

Don't worry about all that -- just keep on focusing on the basics. Speed is going to come over time, and when it does, you're going to have good technique, because you learned on a small bike. I cannot tell you how many times I have cursed the SV for denying me the little bit of extra power that it would have taken to pass some guy on a much larger bike. But -- it forces you to focus on the basics and to make up for the lack in power with corner speed and drive. If people park in the turns, then it is an opportunity for you to practice passing on the outside. Trust me, I know where you're coming from, and it is going to be worth it in the end!

Quoted for extreme truth.

It clicked for me on the Versys. I have the same power disadvantage on it as Striple has on his SV, yet at the end of the day when a Speed Triple pissed me off, I passed him and 5 more guys in a single lap through superior cornering and tactics.

The main thing I learned dropping back to L1 is that when you are actually running a faster lap time than other people, passing happens naturally. You just decide where, when, and how you're going to beat the guy in front of you then do it.

When I can figure out how to get video off my SD card and onto YouTube I'll upload the video of that lap. It was beautiful. I got passed by the S3 on the straight leading to Rattlesnake. The S3 got passed on the outside in Ricochet, the next 3 guys got passed on the straight between Ricochet and Little Bend, another got beat between Little Bend and Buzzard's Neck, and the last got passed on the outside of Big Bend. All totally clean, polite passes, but I was just done following those guys.

The trick (I found out) is to conserve momentum at all costs. If you know how fast you can take a corner, you'll find yourself beating people on braking, taking them on the outside of turns, or setting yourself up for cutting up the inside right after the apex. I used to do the inside-after-the-apex trick, but I found the outside pass to be much more useful in L1, since it doesn't matter whether you're beating them on braking or cornering, you just have to go by them on the outside of the turn. You keep your speed up and run your line wide while they brake and apex. Probably doesn't work in L3 at all, but works great in L1.

[Striple]

The key to riding a small bike -- especially a 250 -- is to maximize corner speed. Since you're basically riding around without an engine, you're going to exit a turn with a speed that is (at best) not too different from your entry speed. Learn to trail brake deep into a turn, and try not to overbrake. Remember, you don't really *need* to start braking at a certain point, you just need to be done with it before you reach your maximum lean angle. You can even get on the brakes earlier than usual, just apply less brake pressure. Then gradually trail off the brakes as you initiate the turn. You can use the same technique to outbrake bigger bikes, and put yourself to the inside of them, before they have a chance to initiate their turn-in (= not an inside pass).

Another excellent way to pass bigger bikes is to let them get ahead of you by a few yards, then set yourself up for a monster drive out of a turn, and place yourself smack onto their line in front of them. Unless you're on a big straight, most L1/L2 riders won't be able to pass you again until after the next turn.

Don't let your lack of horsepower frustrate you on the track (I know -- easier said than done, right?!). In fact, the longer you stick with the 250 on the track, the better it is for your development as a rider. Ask any expert racer, and they will tell you that you're doing exactly the right thing.

[fixxervi6]

Thanks for making me feel so welcome. I had a great time and learned a lot.

Thanks for standing in for the no show meatball!

[Telomere]

The key to riding a small bike -- especially a 250 -- is to maximize corner speed. Since you're basically riding around without an engine, you're going to exit a turn with a speed that is (at best) not too different from your entry speed. Learn to trail brake deep into a turn, and try not to overbrake. Remember, you don't really *need* to start braking at a certain point, you just need to be done with it before you reach your maximum lean angle. You can even get on the brakes earlier than usual, just apply less brake pressure. Then gradually trail off the brakes as you initiate the turn. You can use the same technique to outbrake bigger bikes, and put yourself to the inside of them, before they have a chance to initiate their turn-in (= not an inside pass).

Another excellent way to pass bigger bikes is to let them get ahead of you by a few yards, then set yourself up for a monster drive out of a turn, and place yourself smack onto their line in front of them. Unless you're on a big straight, most L1/L2 riders won't be able to pass you again until after the next turn.

Don't let your lack of horsepower frustrate you on the track (I know -- easier said than done, right?!). In fact, the longer you stick with the 250 on the track, the better it is for your development as a rider. Ask any expert racer, and they will tell you that you're doing exactly the right thing.

It is easier said than done. This is going to take practice and I am sure that once I do it, I will be doing it all the time...it is just getting to the point to learn "when" and "how" to do it. I plan on staying on the 250 at the track until I get that technique down for the simple fact that once I learn how to do it on the smaller, more chattier bike, I shouldn't have a problem doing it on the 600. I don't want to learn how to pass on the outside on the 600 first. I would probably screw up and wind up in the flower patch on the side of the track, smelling them.

[Telomere]

I am glad that you were in lvl 1. Sorry.

We totally need to do it again but this time, I want to follow you Maybe I will have a camera by then and I can video you

[fixxervi6]

My non-racer passing advice for what it's worth.

(I may be on a 750 but those 1K's are a problem in the straights)

1. Don't focus on the bike your coming up on, you will slow down. I had this problem Saturday, I was a little "off" all day but when you come up into a turn like big bend if you shift your focus to the slower bike in front of you, you will slow down. Instead put your focus on the track, build your line as you normally do, only now you have to go around an obstacle.

2. Give them room, instead of trying to pour on the speed mid corner and go faster, use the speed from the straight to carry you around. I was screwing this up Saturday too, I would park behind them, wait for the tip in then try to out power on the outside. It works sometimes but it doesn't feel as smooth and as clean as just keeping the speed from the straight and going around the outside (keep in mind I also have a 750, I can out power 600's in the corners and the straights). On a small bike keep the speed from the straight to carry you through the turn so you don't have to try to drop to the outside and pour on the ink, cause, you ain't got it. Striple can correct me if I'm wrong but that's why he is saying give them a few yards, if you park right behind them, tip in then try to go around the outside, you'll have to out power them if they are rolling on the throttle - give them some room so that you don't have to scrub off that speed your carrying from the straight.

3. Get on the inside and out brake, it's kinda dirty but it's clean. If you show them a wheel before tip in the line is yours. I've cut this too close before and accidently turned it into an inside pass before so just be aware of the timing.

4. Follow someone.
Me --> whistling as I park behind this bike, hey look it's Striple.. where the hell is he going.. I'm gonna follow
Striple --> makes ninja drop toward the outside of big bend in a stealth move while going faster
Me --> I'm just follow and see how it turns out.. damn, who put all this track out here?
Stiple --> rings the neck of the SV into the straight leaving some i4 in the turn
Me --> I had no idea the track was THAT WIDE I can still pull an outside/inside/outside feel with all that extra space!
Me --> I'll be nice, I'm not gonna drag race and stuff this SV... nah, it's striple I'm gonna drag race and stuff this SV before rattle snake
Striple --> Stained by Fixxers stuffing, forever labels fixxer as a drag racer and refuses to give any props to his cornering speed.

5. WORK WITH YOUR RS INSTRUCTOR when they ask what do you want to work on today - say PASSING

[Striple]

Good advice, fixxer. A few comments:

1) Right on the money. Keep your vision wide, regardless how many crazy riders are doing their shenanigans in front of you. This is exactly what will keep you from crapping your pants and running off or crashing when you get passed closely, stuffed, or parked in front of.

2) Yes, the reason why you should give them room on a smaller bike is because that way, you can work around someone parking in a turn. If you stay on his/her tail and they park it, then you may be forced to brake. The rider ahead of you may be able to use their engine to make up for the lost corner speed, but you won't. Now you're forced to spend another turn or two chasing the same doofus, when he/she really should be behind you wondering what just happened.

3) Totally clean, not even slightly dirty.

4)

5) Agreed.

[Telomere]

Good advice, fixxer. A few comments:

1) Right on the money. Keep your vision wide, regardless how many crazy riders are doing their shenanigans in front of you. This is exactly what will keep you from crapping your pants and running off or crashing when you get passed closely, stuffed, or parked in front of.

2) Yes, the reason why you should give them room on a smaller bike is because that way, you can work around someone parking in a turn. If you stay on his/her tail and they park it, then you may be forced to brake. The rider ahead of you may be able to use their engine to make up for the lost corner speed, but you won't. Now you're forced to spend another turn or two chasing the same doofus, when he/she really should be behind you wondering what just happened.

3) Totally clean, not even slightly dirty.

4)

5) Agreed.

I will have to keep ALL of this in mind next time and get with an instructor to show me how to do it. I understand what y'all are saying about staying back and then gain speed to pass them but it is easier said than done. I am sure that once I see it and do it, I will be able to do it all the time...it is just the initial getthing there that is my obstacle right now.

[Striple]

Telomere -- let me know next time you're going to be on the track. If you want, I'd definitely be willing to work a session or two with you. Since I struggled with the same exact aspects, I might be able to show you some things that have helped put me on the right path. Just let me know, I can do it at just about any track day.