June 8th - MSR Trackday/school Give Away

Post by **DarcShadow** » Wed May 21, 2008 6:20 pm

Sorry for the short notice but I just discovered that there is a track day on the 8th.

Most of you should know how this works by now. Answer 3 questions and enter a chance to win a free trackday/school with Ride Smart.

This is non transfereable so if you win and find out you can't make it let us know asap so that a second winner can be drawn. Drawing will be held 8:00pm, Tuesday May 27th.

Ok, the 3 questions...

I've run out of good questions. So...The first person to post up 3 good questions regarding motorcycles, racing, experence, and/or trackdays will be entered. All others will then answer the questions posted by the first person.

Firewa11 · Post by **Firewa11** » Wed May 21, 2008 6:31 pm

1) In your own words, explain what "push left, go left" means with regards to motorcycling.

2) In your own words, explain what "go slow to go fast" means, with regards to the track.

3) If a motorcycle is sitting on a giant conveyer belt, and the conveyer belt matches the motorcycle's speed in reverse, what will happen to the motorcycle?

CrazyKuban · Post by **CrazyKuban** » Wed May 21, 2008 7:21 pm

Firewa11 wrote:1) In your own words, explain what "push left, go left" means with regards to motorcycling.

term for an imaginary force that people feel... You DON'T need to understand the physics, just feel it... and what you feel is not the completely counterintuitive centripetal force but the force that appears to throw you out during a turn. A motorcycle in motion leans over in corners by balancing the tendency of machine and rider to fall over under its own weight against the centrifugal force which tends to throw rider and machine away from the centre of the corner. To maintain the lean, the motorcycle must continue to follow a curved path by turning towards the direction it is leaning.

2) In your own words, explain what "go slow to go fast" means, with regards to the track.

An often-quoted racing adage is that you have to go slow to go fast. The truth is that if you could manage to be smooth, that will make you go fast. Smooth is always fast in the track. If not ask Ty Howard.

3) If a motorcycle is sitting on a giant conveyer belt, and the conveyer belt matches the motorcycle's speed in reverse, what will happen to the motorcycle?

Nothing, the Bike should remain stationary. If not, the laws of Physics may be incorrect.

Post by **DarcShadow** » Wed May 21, 2008 8:19 pm

1) In your own words, explain what "push left, go left" means with regards to motorcycling.
When you push left you are actually turning the front wheel to the left which when your at speed causes the bike to fall to the left and there by turn to the left.

2) In your own words, explain what "go slow to go fast" means, with regards to the track.
slow, smooth control adjustments results in smooth bike movements which allows you to go faster.

3) If a motorcycle is sitting on a giant conveyer belt, and the conveyer belt matches the motorcycle's speed in reverse, what will happen to the motorcycle?
Nothing since the bike is just sitting there.

Post by **sckego** » Thu May 22, 2008 9:03 am

1) In your own words, explain what "push left, go left" means with regards to motorcycling.
Pushing the left bar causes the front wheel to turn slightly to the right, rolling it out from directly under the CG of the bike. This causes the bike to start to fall over to the left, which is countered by steering the bike into a LH turn. Pushing the left bar harder leads to the front wheel driving even further out to the right, meaning an even greater lean angle and tigher turn.

2) In your own words, explain what "go slow to go fast" means, with regards to the track.
Riding smooth and relaxed, which tends to feel slow, is often the quicker way around the track then a frantic, agressive lap. If you want a fast lap, go slow and smooth, and speed will follow.

3) If a motorcycle is sitting on a giant conveyer belt, and the conveyer belt matches the motorcycle's speed in reverse, what will happen to the motorcycle?
The motorcycle sits still.

Blinker · Post by **Blinker** » Thu May 22, 2008 8:14 pm

1) In your own words, explain what "push left, go left" means with regards to motorcycling.
Pushing left will cause the wheel to turn right altering the balance forcing the bike to lean to the left allowing you to smoothly go left

2) In your own words, explain what "go slow to go fast" means, with regards to the track.
If you start out slow on a track you can make adjustments and learn the proper cornering techniques. Therefore once you learn the proper way at a slow pace you can pick up the speed and ultimately go faster than if you had just gone balls to the wall to begin with.

3) If a motorcycle is sitting on a giant conveyer belt, and the conveyer belt matches the motorcycle's speed in reverse, what will happen to the motorcycle?
The speeds of both will cancel each other out and while the bike may be going 120mph and the insane treadmill going 120mph in reverse the motorcycle will not move an inch forward or backwards.

Bird · Post by **Bird** » Tue May 27, 2008 8:52 pm

Matt, good idea on placing the person providing the questions in the drawing.

For the 8th, the winner is FIREWA11 with CrazyKuban coming in second.

Claim your shirt and your Track Day and have a ball.

I'm REALLY disappointed in you Engineers ... the answer to the lean when you turn the wheel is NONE of the above. It's due to the gyroscopic effect of the wheel being moved out of the plane of rotation.

Some of you may have been thinking that, but the words escaped you.

Firewa11 · Post by **Firewa11** » Tue May 27, 2008 8:55 pm

Saweeet! Yeah I'm there on the 8th, let Dave know!

Bird · Post by **Bird** » Tue May 27, 2008 9:20 pm

I'll send an email to him as soon as I hear from the 7th winner (SCKEGO).

Blinker ... if you're going to use one of mine on either day, let me know right away!

Post by **sckego** » Wed May 28, 2008 8:08 am

Bird wrote:I'm REALLY disappointed in you Engineers ... the answer to the lean when you turn the wheel is NONE of the above. It's due to the gyroscopic effect of the wheel being moved out of the plane of rotation. Some of you may have been thinking that, but the words escaped you.

I thought the gyroscopic effect was what made it harder to turn a bike, particularly at high speed. The idea is that something spinning at a high speed in a given plane tends not to want to leave that plane, which is why those gyroscope toys don't fall over, and why it's difficult to lean over a bike thats doing triple digits. At lower speeds, the gyroscopic effect is much less, practially negligible, which is why it's quite easy to lean waaay over in a tight 10mph turn.

Firewa11 · Post by **Firewa11** » Wed May 28, 2008 8:25 am

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211_fall200 ... steer.html

Post by **sckego** » Wed May 28, 2008 8:45 am

Counter-point

http://www.vf750fd.com/blurbs/counter.html

I suspect that getting into this will end in the same way that debates on motor oil, chain maintenance, tires do... with no resolution at all!

Edit: AHA! Wikipedia rules all! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering

Bird · Post by **Bird** » Wed May 28, 2008 7:09 pm

Sckego, Didn't you ever do the physics experiment where you hold a bike tire on an axle, spin it up while standing on a freely rotating platform and then try to change the plane of rotation? Same thing with the front tire ... when you push the handle bar, it causes torque perpendicular to the rotational plane which is what leans the bike over. By the same physics, once you get leaned over in steady state, you will tend to STAY leaned over until you correct as you come out of the corner or accelerate out which causes centripital force to stand the bike back up.

D03Cobra · Post by **D03Cobra** » Thu May 29, 2008 9:31 am

sckego wrote:
Bird wrote:I'm REALLY disappointed in you Engineers ... the answer to the lean when you turn the wheel is NONE of the above. It's due to the gyroscopic effect of the wheel being moved out of the plane of rotation. Some of you may have been thinking that, but the words escaped you.
I thought the gyroscopic effect was what made it harder to turn a bike, particularly at high speed. The idea is that something spinning at a high speed in a given plane tends not to want to leave that plane, which is why those gyroscope toys don't fall over, and why it's difficult to lean over a bike thats doing triple digits. At lower speeds, the gyroscopic effect is much less, practially negligible, which is why it's quite easy to lean waaay over in a tight 10mph turn.

This is correct. At higher speeds the bike tends to want to stand straight up, hence why you can let go of the handelbars and stay upright. At lower speeds the effect is less, letting go of the handelbars and you'll be picking up your bike.

ZX9R · Post by **ZX9R** » Thu May 29, 2008 2:06 pm

Sometimes I feeling like beating all of you with your degree's! Now the only real question is out there is do you feel lucky? Now all the crazy people that want to go fast meet us out there and stay away from me. LOL :track: