Braking into T1 at Barber

[sckego]

You're doing it wrong.
[youtubell][/youtubell]

[WillK675]

Wow! for a second there, I thought the guy in the white leathers was going to get taken out by the bike.

[Rhino]

Um...wha?

That dude went *flying*!

Obviously somebody missed that "out-braking your opponent" and "get your braking done before tip-in" aren't always compatible...

[Firewa11]

Hahaha, holy crap!

[DarcShadow]

What the hell happened? Clearly he endo'ed it over, but what caused it? Endoing over like that is not all that easy unless you are trying to ride an endo out. Most people as soon as they feel the rear end come up get off the brake.

[Dragonfly]

OUCH! That's gonna leave a mark!

[Rhino]

What the hell happened? Clearly he endo'ed it over, but what caused it? Endoing over like that is not all that easy unless you are trying to ride an endo out. Most people as soon as they feel the rear end come up get off the brake.

Maybe he just panicked and grabbed a handful of brake.

[dufremle]

Maybe he just panicked and grabbed a handful of brake.

That's what I am thinking.

[DarcShadow]

possibly, but usually under panic braking you'll just lock it up, not endo it.

[U-Turn]

I've locked up the front a couple of times now, the tire slid and as soon as I realized it I loosened up and got it rolling again. Not on sticky race tires.

[fixxervi6]

possibly, but usually under panic braking you'll just lock it up, not endo it.

my understanding is, panic brake usually results in the front end skidding then tucking.

I've skid my front once on the street doing a panic brake, the front end started to turn and if I would have held on it would have just laid down and slid.

There are several video's around youtube where the bike just instantly "lays down" while going in a straight line, its due to panic brake.

Keith code has a video snip of panic brake vs progressive, in the panic brake the front end skids and tucks, in the progressive brake the bike does an endo.

I'll see if I can find the clip somewhere on the interwebs

[NickS]

It's alarming to me that it is even possible to launch your bike like that. The guy got away clean, but had his bike hit another rider...bad news. I've only ever endo'd under progressive braking, and I've had opportunity to tuck the front under panic braking, I cannot think of a way to do what this guy did.

[milesmiles]

A very long time ago my friend did the same thing as this guy. He was trying to catch up with some friends and by the time he did they were already breaking. He said he was doing somewhere around 86mph when he freaked out and grabbed a fist full of break. It launched him in the air several feet he said. He wasn't wearing anything but a helmet and was in the hospital for a good while.

[fixxervi6]

A very long time ago my friend did the same thing as this guy. He was trying to catch up with some friends and by the time he did they were already breaking. He said he was doing somewhere around 86mph when he freaked out and grabbed a fist full of break. It launched him in the air several feet he said. He wasn't wearing anything but a helmet and was in the hospital for a good while.

Did it endo summer sault or did the front just tuck down throwing the guy off?

[milesmiles]

He said it did an endo and launched him into the air. Another friend said he saw some of it happen in his mirrors and it threw him pretty high. It messed my friend up pretty good.

[fixxervi6]

He said it did an endo and launched him into the air. Another friend said he saw some of it happen in his mirrors and it threw him pretty high. It messed my friend up pretty good.

Then panic brake would makes the most sense in this case, I've always assumed that an instant slam on of the front brake will skid the front wheel.

Maybe he did it on a really nice sticky patch of surface, enough grip to sling the bike instead of locking up the front wheel.

Either way, that bike is toast.

Striple saw something like this at cresson, I never askd if it was just a tuck and lay down or an endo launchy.

[milesmiles]

I think that's what happened here as well. I guess it's all in how you grab it. If you grab it so fast it should tuck, but if it ever gets enough grip then it looks like that's what happened here. Crazy

[Dragonfly]

I saw something similar at MSRC. Going into Little Bend (right handed in CCW), kid next to me on yellow gixxer 600 got hit from behind by a over zealous cbr1000 rider. cbr guy thought he could pass both the gixxer guy and me on zzr600 on that short straight. I passed the gixxer on the right hand side after drifting wide out of Ricochet. After I passed him I drifted to the left to enter Little Bend. As I get to the cone they had set up for us to use as our turn in point, I usually leave about two to three feet of space between me and the edge of the track at that turn. As I start my counter steer I see the kid fly by (doing a superman inpersonation) on my left followed by his bike cart wheeling behind him. It freaked me out and I looked left, as I stood the bike up and ran wide on the turn.

I found out later, the kid on the gixxer hadn't even touched his brakes. He said he was trying to pass me on the left, and the he felt a hit from behind. Like someone had kicked him in the back. The guy on the cbr said he was going so fast there was no way he was going to be able to slow down in time, so he decided he was going to pass between us. The closer he got to us he realized he didn't have enough room to pass, but he had already commited and decided to keep going. I'm lucky I was far enough ahead he hit the gixxer first.

Maybe the guy in the vid got hit from behind, just like the kid on the gixxer. That is my only fear on the track, is being blind sided (hit from behind) by an over zealous rider.

[Rhino]

The guy on the cbr said he was going so fast there was no way he was going to be able to slow down in time

This always pisses me off. There's no way you have enough speed difference that your monster brakes won't prevent you from hitting the guy in front of you. Yes, you may have to stand the bike up, brake in a straight line, and run off the track, but there's no excuse for plowing into somebody in front of you.

[DemonDuck]

Yea it scares me to think about the whole no mirror thing and all. I wont be able to tell someone is to close when I go into a turn or whatever and I end up hitting them with my back tire or something. Or even like you said they just try to run me over or something. Then I am out my only bike. That would suck.

[Dragonfly]

It's difficult, but you have to get use to not worrying about what's behind you. Remember if you enter the corner first you own it, it's the other guys/girls responsibility to pass safely. If someone doesn't give you the 6ft space of respect, tell one of the instructors (especially in lvl 1). They make sure they understand how to safely pass, if not they get kicked out. I have seen it before, RideSmart inst. aren't afraid to tell someone they're being an ass on the track.

[DemonDuck]

I hope I dont have to deal with it at all but the bad thing is when you dont have the chance to tell the instructor and end up with a busted up bike/person because of it. At that point it dont matter much whos fault it was .... again I hope I dont have to ever worry about it.

[DarcShadow]

I know it happen, but personally the only time I've every seen anything close like that is when the lead bike screws up and had a sudden change in speed that was unexpected, typically a result of missing a shift and coasting through a turn.

[Rhino]

Yeah, what the other guys said.

It's true, you can get taken out from behind. But, if you're smooth and follow a consistent line (even if it's not the race line) you greatly reduce the chance of that happening. Then you really only have to worry about the idiots who think L1 is a race. Report them to the instructors and the track marshal and that problem will be taken care of quickly.

I saw a guy playing boy racer my last time at MSRC, and I made the mistake of not pitting in to report him. He didn't take anybody out, but the instructors called him out in class and said if they found out who it was he'd be done. He was wearing one of the colored shirts at the time, so if somebody had actually pulled off to tell the marshal he could have been black flagged during the session and the problem solved a lot quicker.

Still, like everything else in motorcycling, going to the track is a risk. It's up to you to decide if it's one you're willing to take.

[sckego]

Back from the dead, this time a highlight from y'all's (can you even have two apostrophes in one word!?!?) neck of the woods, TWS. This time, dual stoppies!

[youtubell][/youtubell]