Race slicks vs street tires

[fixxervi6]

So, how hard can you push street tires, how much better are race slicks?

I chewed up my Q2's pretty good and I didn't push their ability, I think I slid once and it was due to my line over a seam.

So, what is the limit of a street tire at the track? The guys in the classroom kept talking about how nice race tires are compared to street tires, are they just trying to sell tires?

I've seen some race take offs that were regular street tires that were ragged all to hell, scary looking, so I know they can take a LOT of abuse but how much before they no longer get it done? CMRA expert level?

[Dragonfly]

There's an in between category, DOT race, just enough tread to be street legal, just another option. Not that you couldn't run race slicks on the street but they have no grooves to displace water. Slicks take longer to warm up unless you have tire warmers, they are stickier than street tires and don't accept as many heat cycles so they don't last as long, they do give you a few more degrees of lean angle, Plus they're more expensive $$$.

Street tires are not as sticky, but can take more heat cycles, they have more grooves to displace water, less expensive and less lean angle, and last a heck of a lot longer.

A couple of years back I did some laps at Cresson in the 1:26 to 1:28 neighborhood on street tires (@90%), and a 1:20 to 1:22 best on slicks (@ what felt like close to 100%). I did this because, an instructor encouraged me as to running slick was the only way for me to go faster.

Personally, I would say save a little money. Buy a second set of wheels. Buy a soft compound street tire (something your comfy and confident on). Use them on the track till the edges start tearing up (about 3 or 4 trackdays) after that use them as a commuting tire. Buy a new set and mount them on your spare set of wheels and save them for the track after you start using the first set for commuting. Rinse and repeat.

[Firewa11]

Race slicks give much better traction, but also provide a much greater lean angle. They are incredibly confidence-inspiring, and quite literally sticky. When you come off the track and touch them, they feel like the adhesive from a strip of duct tape that's been warming in the sun.

[fixxervi6]

Yea, I was more curious tho where is the line where high end street tires simply no longer gets the job done.

I still have tiny chicken strips so I don't need increased lean angle or any of that, just wondering if race tires are really all that and a bag of chips or are they for that tiny edge up to shave tenths.

[Firewa11]

No, they really are all that, not just a tiny improvement. Race tires make your bike feel as though it's on rails. It's hard to put into words, but I highly recommend anyone go out and give soft compound tires a go on the track. It really is like night and day difference. Problem is you'll get spoiled and hate going back to street tires. I'd recommend a good compromise, go with Michelin Power One's, I know MoS really liked running these. You don't get much life but that's what you get from track tires.

The other tire I would recommend is a Dunlop D211, but you'll have to get those from the dunlop vendor (LSTD track day / cmra race weekend), they are DOT race tires.

But, with any race tire, you'll need tire warmers. The Michelin Power One's don't need warmers as they get hot after a couple of laps. The D211's were slippery as hell when cold, but once they got hot they were like riding on a glue stick.

[Rhino]

Keep in mind that "not much life" means "one, maybe two track days".

I badly want to run sticky tires, but I don't want to pay like $500 per track day for registration and new tires.

[DarcShadow]

Tire warmers are also to limit heat cycling and help extend the life of the tire.

Cresson is really bad a tearing up tires, lot of off camber/flat turns that really stress your tire. Also, tire pressure makes a huge difference. I was pushing it my usual pace this last time but was paying attention to tire pressure though out the day and my tires were not tore up anywhere close to what I usually do. I think it was Guy who mentioned to check the pressure before going on the track, and then again when you get off. There should only be about a 10% increase in tire pressure. If there is more then that you need to add some air.

I starated out at 30 and if felt like I could feel the side walls roll in a turn. Once they got warm and pressure built up to about 35 they felt good again. I adjusted my pressure to 33/34 cold, so that after just a lap they were up to about 35/36 and felt good the entire session. When I came back in and checked they were right at 36 and they did not wear hard at all like I usually get.

[Dragonfly]

Keep in mind that "not much life" means "one, maybe two track days".

I badly want to run sticky tires, but I don't want to pay like $500 per track day for registration and new tires.

More like $400 for race tires per trackday, plus registration fees bringing the total closer to $600. Not worth it unless your racing in my opinion. That's why I run street/trackday tire instead of a race tire on the track and a street tire on the street.

You don't need race tires to get a little faster, but you use race tires to go a lot faster. Question you should ask yourself is do you want to be the "fastest guy" at the track or "one of the fast guys" and the really big question how much do you want to spend? Because there are a lot of other things you can do to your bike to help you go faster, but all are $$$.

[fixxervi6]

Keep in mind that "not much life" means "one, maybe two track days".

I badly want to run sticky tires, but I don't want to pay like $500 per track day for registration and new tires.

More like $400 for race tires per trackday, plus registration fees bringing the total closer to $600. Not worth it unless your racing in my opinion. That's why I run street/trackday tire instead of a race tire on the track and a street tire on the street.

You don't need race tires to get a little faster, but you use race tires to go a lot faster. Question you should ask yourself is do you want to be the "fastest guy" at the track or "one of the fast guys" and the really big question how much do you want to spend? Because there are a lot of other things you can do to your bike to help you go faster, but all are $$$.

I'm no where near spending any $$ to make me go faster, about all I want to get is a quick shifter and new exhaust, neither for speed purposes.

I have to wonder, I have a GSXR, it may not have top of the line components but how much do you spend to go a little faster. So lets say I max out my bike's setup, suspension etc. If I turn around and blow 3 grand on upgrades, will it shave 1 seconds, 2? Not worth it if you ask me.

[Rhino]

I have to wonder, I have a GSXR, it may not have top of the line components but how much do you spend to go a little faster. So lets say I max out my bike's setup, suspension etc. If I turn around and blow 3 grand on upgrades, will it shave 1 seconds, 2? Not worth it if you ask me.

The thing that keeps me from spending money--Meat of Snail is faster than both of us on a 250.

[fixxervi6]

I have to wonder, I have a GSXR, it may not have top of the line components but how much do you spend to go a little faster. So lets say I max out my bike's setup, suspension etc. If I turn around and blow 3 grand on upgrades, will it shave 1 seconds, 2? Not worth it if you ask me.

The thing that keeps me from spending money--Meat of Snail is faster than both of us on a 250.

Man I've been drooling HARD over the RS125, they aren't that expensive. I'd rather get one of those than put 5,500 worth of performance upgrades into my gsxr. My biggest hold back is they wouldn't be good for track's like ECR, well, that and I don't have $5,500 burning a hole in my pocket right now.

[milesmiles]

I haven't looked into the RS125 much, but i want a ninja 250 so bad!

[DemonDuck]

I was reading something somewhere on some of the newer street tires and one pro racer took the same ones you have on the street and it only made him a couple seconds slower around the track than the ones he had on the bike in the race. I think it was the Mich but not sure... might have been Pirelli.

[fixxervi6]

I haven't looked into the RS125 much, but i want a ninja 250 so bad!

RS125 is lighter, two stroke, and more of a race bike, 250 is more upright, lower pegs etc. I plan on putting upgrades into the 250 for clip-ons and rear sets, I'll have it out at the track after that.

I was reading something somewhere on some of the newer street tires and one pro racer took the same ones you have on the street and it only made him a couple seconds slower around the track than the ones he had on the bike in the race. I think it was the Mich but not sure... might have been Pirelli.

you sure it wasn't Q2's?

[DemonDuck]

maybe

[milesmiles]

well when you are talking about "a few seconds slower" in racing that is a huge deal

[DemonDuck]

If your racing in a paid competition sure.... if your at the track like most of us do..... not so much. I dont think anyone runs at 100% at the track like we do and most of us dont have a bike set up for just the track. If you got that deep into it where it would make you some money if you come out on top..... Sure take the few seconds. Untill then I will be hanging with my street tires. And before I think about going with different tires Ill get a different bike because I am sure having a 1000 or 600 vs the 1400 would end up cutting more time than tires.

[DarcShadow]

A few seconds on what track? A few seconds at The Ring would be nothing, a few seconds at MSR 1.3 would be a pretty big deal.

[milesmiles]

good point, both darc and demon

[DarcShadow]

dumping the heavy Q2 and going with something lighter would make a big difference as well. The less unspring weight the better.

[fixxervi6]

dumping the heavy Q2 and going with something lighter would make a big difference as well. The less unspring weight the better.

Wouldn't this really just affect tip in effort and speed?

[milesmiles]

whoops never mind what i wrote, i read that wrong

[DarcShadow]

and handling, tire wear, stability, a whole wealth of things.

[Rhino]

dumping the heavy Q2 and going with something lighter would make a big difference as well. The less unspring weight the better.

Wouldn't this really just affect tip in effort and speed?

No, the biggest impact of unsprung weight is how your suspension handles. The less your wheels weigh, the quicker your suspension can compress and rebound and the less effort your suspension has to put in to keep the wheel on the ground.

The practical impact is that your tires get sticker, especially under acceleration and braking because they stay in contact with the ground better over slightly (or very) uneven surfaces.

You know how when Roger tunes your suspension your bike feels like it handles tons better? Get some light forged alloy wheels and light tires on your bike and you'll get another improvement like that.

[Grinner]

Hey Fix....I just gotta ask....why a Quuickshifter?