Confederate flag.
Re: Confederate flag.
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Re: Confederate flag.
I don't feel particularly strong about the issue, but flying a confederate flag on a state capitol doesn't seem like a sensible thing to do, and I can understand when some people would take offense to that. Other than that, I think that flying any flag or symbol that has been perceived by others are being associated with racism/holocaust/oppression in any form seems like a bad idea, regardless whether your own perception of that symbol differs from others. The swastika has a long history among various Indian (and many other) cultures, where it served as a good-luck charm. However, flying that flag today would be an obviously unreasonable thing to do, considering the association that most people make with that particular symbol. I don't think that it should be illegal to do (by private individuals), but it sure would be stupid. You should have the right to express whatever you'd like, and then everyone else should have the right to go bananas over it. Which they currently are.
Edit: Jim brought up the swastika example as I was typing this post. I'm offended.
Edit: Jim brought up the swastika example as I was typing this post. I'm offended.
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Re: Confederate flag.
I agree that government entities should not be flying it, just like I don't think they should display religious items either. Separation of church and state. But I don't think it should be banned or companies not sell to those who want it.
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- Striple
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Re: Confederate flag.
Agreed, although companies are always going to do what they believe is best for their business.dufremle wrote:I agree that government entities should not be flying it, just like I don't think they should display religious items either. Separation of church and state. But I don't think it should be banned or companies not sell to those who want it.
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Re: Confederate flag.
The problem are the adults not the children. The children need to stand up and tell the adults how stupid they are being. I don't see the children being hateful like the adults in this society. Maybe they aren't hateful because it is normal for them. Most kids are of mixed races and they have friends that are homosexual. This is all normal for them and they accept everyone. Why can't the adults take a clue from the today's younger generation? We are all one race: HUMAN. I hate filling out papers where they ask race because if you ever looked at the options, it is about color not ethnicity (which means you are white, you don't get shit).
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Re: Confederate flag.
Haven't done it yet but I decided awhile back next time I fill out something that ask for race I'm going to mark other and write in Human.
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Re: Confederate flag.
Symbols mean different things to different people, and it depends upon the time that symbol is used as to how it is perceived. I highly doubt people had crosses nailed to their bedroom walls or above their dinner table in the years crucifixion was still being used as a popular method of execution. It wasn't for a long time after that it became a symbol for Christianity. If Jesus had been executed by stoning, the symbol of Christianity might have been a rock.
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Re: Confederate flag.
Here's a question, how is the swastika received in Germany, if a German fly's it and try's to claim it's heritage and not about, well all the bad stuff, do other Germans accept it or are they beat down for it?Striple wrote:I don't feel particularly strong about the issue, but flying a confederate flag on a state capitol doesn't seem like a sensible thing to do, and I can understand when some people would take offense to that. Other than that, I think that flying any flag or symbol that has been perceived by others are being associated with racism/holocaust/oppression in any form seems like a bad idea, regardless whether your own perception of that symbol differs from others. The swastika has a long history among various Indian (and many other) cultures, where it served as a good-luck charm. However, flying that flag today would be an obviously unreasonable thing to do, considering the association that most people make with that particular symbol. I don't think that it should be illegal to do (by private individuals), but it sure would be stupid. You should have the right to express whatever you'd like, and then everyone else should have the right to go bananas over it. Which they currently are.
Edit: Jim brought up the swastika example as I was typing this post. I'm offended.
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Re: Confederate flag.
For what it's worth, from WiseGeek...
The answer to this question largely depends on the intended use of the swastika symbol. As a matter of public law, the post-war German law codes prohibit the display of a swastika in any form or fashion, even if used satirically or as part of an anti-Nazi political statement. This law is generally applied to the specific five-by-five grid swastika design used during the Nazi era, however. Several religious organizations have petitioned the German government for permission to display other forms of the symbol.
Historically, the swastika symbol denotes general peace and world harmony, not the violence and genocide associated with the Nazi movement. The word swastika is derived from a Sanskrit word that describes any form of good luck charm. Several other German political and social organizations had already incorporated swastikas into their banners or flags before the rise of the National Socialist or Nazi party. While Adolph Hitler was in prison for a failed coup attempt, he conceived the idea of a National Socialist Party flag bearing a large black swastika in the center.
Hitler's choice of the swastika was partially based on his strong belief in the Aryan or master race theory. The original Aryans lived in India and were considered to be among the first Caucasian or white invaders of the Eastern world. Hitler believed that the swastika would remind the blond-haired, blue-eyed Aryan descendants in Europe of their rightful place as superiors. The complete annihilation of the inferior Jewish race would guarantee purity in the future bloodlines of a world dominated by Socialist ideals.
After the fall of the Nazi regime, many Germans felt their new government should take steps to distance itself from that tragic and costly time in German history. Along with banning the publication or ownership of Hitler's autobiography Mein Kampf, the West German government made any display or use of the Nazi swastika illegal. This law continues to be tested today, with various neo-Nazi organizations routinely displaying the outlawed Nazi flag during demonstrations. Even consumer products such as t-shirts and bumper stickers can be confiscated if they contain any depiction of a swastika.
Some Germans equate the display of the swastika to the display of the Confederate flag in the United States. Both symbols represent dark periods in each country's history, but the government's attempt to outlaw their display could be construed as whitewashing – an effort to downplay the significance of the event itself. While most modern Germans bristle at the thought of the Holocaust or Hitler's reign of terror, some believe the display of the swastika symbol should not be completely outlawed. Oftentimes, the acknowledgement of a symbol of evil can be the key to diminishing its significance.
The answer to this question largely depends on the intended use of the swastika symbol. As a matter of public law, the post-war German law codes prohibit the display of a swastika in any form or fashion, even if used satirically or as part of an anti-Nazi political statement. This law is generally applied to the specific five-by-five grid swastika design used during the Nazi era, however. Several religious organizations have petitioned the German government for permission to display other forms of the symbol.
Historically, the swastika symbol denotes general peace and world harmony, not the violence and genocide associated with the Nazi movement. The word swastika is derived from a Sanskrit word that describes any form of good luck charm. Several other German political and social organizations had already incorporated swastikas into their banners or flags before the rise of the National Socialist or Nazi party. While Adolph Hitler was in prison for a failed coup attempt, he conceived the idea of a National Socialist Party flag bearing a large black swastika in the center.
Hitler's choice of the swastika was partially based on his strong belief in the Aryan or master race theory. The original Aryans lived in India and were considered to be among the first Caucasian or white invaders of the Eastern world. Hitler believed that the swastika would remind the blond-haired, blue-eyed Aryan descendants in Europe of their rightful place as superiors. The complete annihilation of the inferior Jewish race would guarantee purity in the future bloodlines of a world dominated by Socialist ideals.
After the fall of the Nazi regime, many Germans felt their new government should take steps to distance itself from that tragic and costly time in German history. Along with banning the publication or ownership of Hitler's autobiography Mein Kampf, the West German government made any display or use of the Nazi swastika illegal. This law continues to be tested today, with various neo-Nazi organizations routinely displaying the outlawed Nazi flag during demonstrations. Even consumer products such as t-shirts and bumper stickers can be confiscated if they contain any depiction of a swastika.
Some Germans equate the display of the swastika to the display of the Confederate flag in the United States. Both symbols represent dark periods in each country's history, but the government's attempt to outlaw their display could be construed as whitewashing – an effort to downplay the significance of the event itself. While most modern Germans bristle at the thought of the Holocaust or Hitler's reign of terror, some believe the display of the swastika symbol should not be completely outlawed. Oftentimes, the acknowledgement of a symbol of evil can be the key to diminishing its significance.
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Re: Confederate flag.
German laws prohibit the exhibition of most Nazi-related symbols. In fact, even the Hitler-greet is against federal law. Neonazis and other right-wing nuts try to circumvent that law by modifying the symbol ever so slightly. When they do exhibit the outlawed version of those symbols, its usually only under the shield of a large group as part of a demonstration, and they use bandanas and balaclavas to hide their identity and thus avoid prosecution. Neonazis are almost never by themselves, as most Germans do not take kindly to that kind of stuff, and a solo neonazi has a good chance of getting his ass beaten in public.fixxervi6 wrote:Here's a question, how is the swastika received in Germany, if a German fly's it and try's to claim it's heritage and not about, well all the bad stuff, do other Germans accept it or are they beat down for it?
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Re: Confederate flag.
I have mixed feelings about that.Striple wrote:German laws prohibit the exhibition of most Nazi-related symbols. In fact, even the Hitler-greet is against federal law. Neonazis and other right-wing nuts try to circumvent that law by modifying the symbol ever so slightly. When they do exhibit the outlawed version of those symbols, its usually only under the shield of a large group as part of a demonstration, and they use bandanas and balaclavas to hide their identity and thus avoid prosecution. Neonazis are almost never by themselves, as most Germans do not take kindly to that kind of stuff, and a solo neonazi has a good chance of getting his ass beaten in public.fixxervi6 wrote:Here's a question, how is the swastika received in Germany, if a German fly's it and try's to claim it's heritage and not about, well all the bad stuff, do other Germans accept it or are they beat down for it?
I'm good with a neonazi getting their ass beat in public, but banning a symbol... that just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not good with the government putting limits on my language in anyway, weather it be in the form of a word, or symbol.
I will say in terms of freedom I am an extremist - I'm all about maximum freedom and minimal government so wihtout knowing my complete views someone might think my opinion on the law banning the swastika is a bit off.
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Re: Confederate flag.
Yep, I agree 100%.fixxervi6 wrote:I have mixed feelings about that.
I'm good with a neonazi getting their ass beat in public, but banning a symbol... that just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not good with the government putting limits on my language in anyway, weather it be in the form of a word, or symbol.
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Re: Confederate flag.
You better look out for some of those Nazi moderators we've got on here then.fixxervi6 wrote:I'm not good with the government putting limits on my language in anyway...
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Re: Confederate flag.
Nobody mind me, i'm just passing throughLonestarCBR wrote:You better look out for some of those Nazi moderators we've got on here then.fixxervi6 wrote:I'm not good with the government putting limits on my language in anyway...
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Re: Confederate flag.
I always check Other, then put human.Telomere wrote:We are all one race: HUMAN. I hate filling out papers where they ask race because if you ever looked at the options, it is about color not ethnicity (which means you are white, you don't get shit).
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Re: Confederate flag.
Just going to toss my half drunken 2 cents in....
So I had this big long diatribe written up, but I deleted it all.
This whole thing is shitty on soo many levels. My summation is this: people are who they are. The government can't force that change. IMHO the best thing to do is to do away with all race classifications in the legal system, and to become intolerant of people who are offended. Let people choose who they associate and do business with. Eventually the world will change around them. Keep frying those who cross a line, but for goodness sake, stop trying to force change of opinion by law. It has, and always will have the wrong result.
I'm not sorry if that offends anyone.
So I had this big long diatribe written up, but I deleted it all.
This whole thing is shitty on soo many levels. My summation is this: people are who they are. The government can't force that change. IMHO the best thing to do is to do away with all race classifications in the legal system, and to become intolerant of people who are offended. Let people choose who they associate and do business with. Eventually the world will change around them. Keep frying those who cross a line, but for goodness sake, stop trying to force change of opinion by law. It has, and always will have the wrong result.
I'm not sorry if that offends anyone.
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Re: Confederate flag.
My opinion is, if you depend on a flag to have "heritage" or to remember your heritage, then you and your mind are pathetic. The flag has no more symbolism than my middle finger. And it's an overblown issue.
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Re: Confederate flag.
Striple wrote:Yep, I agree 100%.fixxervi6 wrote:I have mixed feelings about that.
I'm good with a neonazi getting their ass beat in public, but banning a symbol... that just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not good with the government putting limits on my language in anyway, weather it be in the form of a word, or symbol.
What about an action with a symbol? Say burning an American flag?
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Re: Confederate flag.
Same question as above. What's up Jacob?NakedDentonite wrote:My opinion is, if you depend on a flag to have "heritage" or to remember your heritage, then you and your mind are pathetic. The flag has no more symbolism than my middle finger. And it's an overblown issue.
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Re: Confederate flag.
Yep, that should be allowed. Burning a flag is just an expression of an opinion, much like beating the ass of somebody doing so.WickerMan wrote:Striple wrote:Yep, I agree 100%.fixxervi6 wrote:I have mixed feelings about that.
I'm good with a neonazi getting their ass beat in public, but banning a symbol... that just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not good with the government putting limits on my language in anyway, weather it be in the form of a word, or symbol.
What about an action with a symbol? Say burning an American flag?
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Re: Confederate flag.
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Sometimes you gotta draw the line, but that doesn't mean it can't be squiggly-miles
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Sometimes you gotta draw the line, but that doesn't mean it can't be squiggly-miles
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Re: Confederate flag.
I say allow it.WickerMan wrote:Striple wrote:Yep, I agree 100%.fixxervi6 wrote:I have mixed feelings about that.
I'm good with a neonazi getting their ass beat in public, but banning a symbol... that just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not good with the government putting limits on my language in anyway, weather it be in the form of a word, or symbol.
What about an action with a symbol? Say burning an American flag?
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Re: Confederate flag.
Good, I feel the same way. I believe our government puts too many limits on our freedoms.fixxervi6 wrote:I say allow it.
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