Clutchless shifting - split from new rider in fort worth

[mikewarke]

So what's the opinion on downshifting when slowing down ? Clutch no clutch? I've been using no clutch. Just don't wanna tear anything up!

[fixxervi6]

So what's the opinion on downshifting when slowing down ? Clutch no clutch? I've been using no clutch. Just don't wanna tear anything up!

Unless your doing perfect rev matches on your downshift, clutch

[mikewarke]

Not really sure. It transitions smooth, sometimes get a small bark from the rear tire.

[milesmiles]

Not really sure. It transitions smooth, sometimes get a small bark from the rear tire.

Then you are not "rev matching" it. You need to blip the throttle to match the revs of the motor to the transmission, basically. It's not hard to learn, but takes some practice. Once you start doing it you won't even think about it any more

[DarcShadow]

clutchless shifting in genernaly puts more strain on the transmission so unless you're racing it's unnecessary wear. Now granted using the clutch wears the clutch so you're basically moving where the wear is occuring. That being said, I downshift with out the clutch when I'm being lazy. I just put a little pressure on the lever and if the bike is going slow enough it falls into gear. Or if I blip the throttle it'll fall into gear as well.

[fixxervi6]

Upshift - I used to do clutchless 90% of the time, now that I have quick shifter I use the clutch 80% of the time (I know it seams backwards but it's a long story).

Downshift - its super rare I downshift without the clutch, I don't like putting pressure on shifter and then trying to match rev's, that pushes your shift forks against the gears that slide (with the dogs) and wears them.

[DarcShadow]

Upshift - I used to do clutchless 90% of the time, now that I have quick shifter I use the clutch 80% of the time (I know it seams backwards but it's a long story).

Ok, split this off and explain please. I thought the whole point of the quick shifter was that you don't use the clutch, it kills the ignition for a split second allowing the shift to happen all while pinned at full throttle.

[fixxervi6]

Upshift - I used to do clutchless 90% of the time, now that I have quick shifter I use the clutch 80% of the time (I know it seams backwards but it's a long story).

Ok, split this off and explain please. I thought the whole point of the quick shifter was that you don't use the clutch, it kills the ignition for a split second allowing the shift to happen all while pinned at full throttle.

Yep, and it works slicker than a greased pig, one of the funnest mods I've done to my bike.

The quick shifter (mine anyways) is really tuned and setup for hard riding like what you would do on the track, minimum cut time for maximum power, and works best under load. WOT at peak power output it's smooth as silk, stupid smooth, amazing smooth.

A lot of times on the street my shift pattern is more like 1st gear, 2nd gear (clutch in then go all the way to 6 click click click click) and cruise, quick shifter won't let you just go through 4 gears like that unless you have the hammer down.

And 1st into 2nd, if I'm WOT and going for gold it's perfect, on the street, if I'm just cruising and I hit it, it'll jerk the bike pretty hard between 1st and 2nd if I'm at middle to lower RPM, not hard enough that it feels like your going to break something, it's just not butter smooth like I can make it with the clutch or when I'm putting the hammer down.

That's my setup, ymmv and I've heard other setups are more "street friendly" and that the bazzaz is more track oriented.

So before the QS I would just clutchless ALL the time, at low speed under no load I wouldn't even blip (of flick or whatever the opposite of blip is called) I would just match my throttle posistion with the speed/gear. So instead of loadig the shifter, then giving the quick flick closed/open to shift I would just pull up the same time I moved the throttle to a lower posistion and click, and you could just clicky clicky all day long with no "pre loading" of the shifter. I can't do that anymore with the QS.

For a street only bike that is around town, honostly I think the QS is retarted, I found it easier without it.

For a street bike that gets riden the way I ride mine when I'm out and about (non commute fun ride that is faster than moderate pace), with some track days, its the cat's meow and I plan on owning one from here on out. And yea, I can still clutchless no problem when I jump on another bike so you don't "forget how to shift" when you have one, or at least that is my experience.

[DarcShadow]

Interesting, I wouldn't of thought it's be that unsmooth at slower speeds.

[Rhino]

Makes sense, a very fast spark cut won't let the engine speed drop hardly at all. Fine when you're up in the power band where you want that quick hit, not so great down lower where you really should have the spark cut a little longer to let the engine speed drop a little more.

[russian]

i NEVER use the clutch to upshift or downshift. the ONLY time its used is to get moving from a stop. when done right(and its not very hard to do it right) theres absolutely no risk of messing anything up.

[dufremle]

Clutches are designed to be replaced. Gears are not. Use the clutch.

[fixxervi6]

I'm all for clutchless shifting, and in theory if done right there is no wear on the transmission.

However, I'm willing to bet MOST people can't do it right even if they think they are doing it right. Putting pressure on the shift lever then adjusting the throttle until the gear slips in, is indroducing wear. It wears down the shift forks and I've read stories of this causing the shift forks to "stick" causing further problems. google images should show you some examples of this.

I'm one of the ones that can't downshift without a clutch properly, so I use the clutch.

Clutches are a hell of a lot cheaper and easier to replace than shift forks or dog's/gears, I'd rather wear the clutch out every 10,000 miles than a fork every 50,000 miles.

(for the record I have 30K+ on my clutch with no issues)

[dufremle]

I am pushing 39,000 on my clutch. I use my clutch on every shift. I also don't use engine braking when coming to a stop. I use the brakes.

[DarcShadow]

I always hate the signs at towns that say "no engine braking". It's virtually impossible to slow an automatic car down with out the use of engine braking, unless you throw it into neutral, you are using some engine braking and by the definition of the sign, braking the law.

[Telomere]

I always hate the signs at towns that say "no engine braking". It's virtually impossible to slow an automatic car down with out the use of engine braking, unless you throw it into neutral, you are using some engine braking and by the definition of the sign, braking the law.

Only you would take those signs to mean that!!!!

[fixxervi6]

I always hate the signs at towns that say "no engine braking". It's virtually impossible to slow an automatic car down with out the use of engine braking, unless you throw it into neutral, you are using some engine braking and by the definition of the sign, braking the law.

I've seen some that say "no engine brake" so you'd be legal there

[russian]

I'm all for clutchless shifting, and in theory if done right there is no wear on the transmission.

However, I'm willing to bet MOST people can't do it right even if they think they are doing it right. Putting pressure on the shift lever then adjusting the throttle until the gear slips in, is indroducing wear. It wears down the shift forks and I've read stories of this causing the shift forks to "stick" causing further problems. google images should show you some examples of this.

I'm one of the ones that can't downshift without a clutch properly, so I use the clutch.

Clutches are a hell of a lot cheaper and easier to replace than shift forks or dog's/gears, I'd rather wear the clutch out every 10,000 miles than a fork every 50,000 miles.

(for the record I have 30K+ on my clutch with no issues)

yes, that is not the right way to do it.
you gotta match the rpm's first then shift.

[russian]

i only got about 7k miles out of my first clutch, but theres a completely different reason for that (500+ 1/4 passes lol)

[Rhino]

I always hate the signs at towns that say "no engine braking". It's virtually impossible to slow an automatic car down with out the use of engine braking, unless you throw it into neutral, you are using some engine braking and by the definition of the sign, braking the law.

That's for semi trucks, you dork.

[DarcShadow]

I always hate the signs at towns that say "no engine braking". It's virtually impossible to slow an automatic car down with out the use of engine braking, unless you throw it into neutral, you are using some engine braking and by the definition of the sign, braking the law.

That's for semi trucks, you dork.

Yeah, but the sign doesn't say that, and I'd be curious to see how the actual city ordance is worded. A cop could be a real ass.
"Sir, do you know why I pulled you over?"
"Uh, no officer, not a clue."
"I clocked you slowing down from 45 to 35."
"Uh, ok, the speed limit here is 45 isn't it?"
"Yes, but you slowed down and not once hit your brakes, you were using engine braking."

[fixxervi6]

I've seen both signs posted, I think the one on keller on 377 says no engine braking.

I've seen some too that say no jake brake, but thats up north, not sure if they call them jake brakes down here.

[DarcShadow]

I've seen jake brake around here...some place. Is that the actual term, or is that a slang term name for that braking method?

[milesmiles]

i jake brake all the time

[fixxervi6]

I've seen jake brake around here...some place. Is that the actual term, or is that a slang term name for that braking method?

I'm not sure where the term jake brake came from, but the offical term is engine brake.

Nothing more than a valve that creates a lot of back pressure on the exhaust, hense the noise. Growing up in the mountins the sound was all too normal.